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Every pizzeria I know has a web site. Every time I want to order a pizza or book a table I just go to their website (or google it up and go) and either use thei

Every pizzeria I know has a web site. Every time I want to order a pizza or book a table I just go to their website (or google it up and go) and either use their web UI to select it (if they are big enough to hire an engineer to put it there) or just call them (which I also find Okay, this even takes less time usually). Constructing a simple web page is not hard. Simple shared web hosting is cheap and often comes with a free domain name. There also are totally free hosting platforms (some ad-sponsored perhaps, but this is tolerable and better than nothing), many come with a WYSIWYG constructor (mostly producing shitty code but still Okay as compared to no WWW presence at all). There also are GitHub Pages which give you great static page hosting + news posting for free if you know basic git (and there already are enough of people around who know git and will make you a GitHub page if you just give them a free pizza or two, me included). You don't even need a website actually, you can just register your business in Google and local competitors (if any, depends on the country) and put your email address (needless to say how easy it is to get for free) there. People will find you via location-targeted search, email/call you and update your rating. I wouldn't consider Google much better than Facebook in this context but at least it's an alternative and let's you share independent contact channels visibly.

101008 5y ago
Where do you live?
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  In Europe.
efdee 5y ago
> There also are totally free hosting platforms (some ad-sponsored perhaps, but this is tolerable and better than nothing), many come with a WYSIWYG constructor (mostly producing shitty code but still Okay as compared to no WWW presence at all). There also are GitHub Pages which give you great static page hosting + news posting for free if you know basic git (and there already are enough of people around who know git and will make you a GitHub page if you just give them a free pizza or two, me included). I don't understand how you can type this and then still say you don't understand why people just create a free Facebook page instead. And that is not even touching on the network effect that your Facebook page enjoys.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  I just mean it's very far from being prohibitively hard/expensive for an average Joey the baker to get a personal web page outside Facebook.
  - wbl 5y ago
    Joey's business is pizza, not making websites.
    - airstrike 5y ago
      Nor is their business paying taxes, hiring or advertising, yet they seem to manage to do all of those on a regular basis.
      - johnisgood 5y ago
        Or starting a business to begin with.
relativ575 5y ago
It doesn't make any sense for a pizzeria to concern themselves with buying a domain, creating a website; finding a hosting; advertising the website; and maintaining it. The point of FB is being easy to set up, and much more importantly, getting the traffic. Ask yourself, how hard is it to cook, yet how often people are eating out? (pandemic constraint excluded) A contractor of mine gets most of his business via his FB page, and he knows absolutely nothing about coding. He complains a lot about labor shortage. Imagine he'd have to worry about finding a web developer as well.
- philote 5y ago
  If a pizzaria wants business, it makes sense for them to advertise and have a way for people to find them. There are many alternatives to Facebook to help businesses do that, just like there are many ad agencies for them to use to get their ads on radio and TV. Business of course want to keep costs low and FB is (AFAIK) "free" to get started on. But once they get on FB, don't they still need to expand their reach by using Facebook ads? Or is just having a page enough? (I don't use FB so I'm clueless how that works)
  - fsociety 5y ago
    This is the real value proposition, Ben Thompson has a lot of good articles on the good and bad of Facebook. Radio and TV ads are expensive because they can only serve one ad spot at a time. Plus, my understanding from friends in advertising is that TV spots can become quite expensive as demand rises. You can get books which tell you roughly the cost of advertising for all different types of media. Whereas at a single point in time, Facebook can sell many ad spots and allow individuals to target certain groups of people. Unsurprisingly, media thinks you can do very specific ad targeting but you can’t.. not to the level of doomsday-ness that people suggest. They’ve put limits on the min # of people you can target. It is worth mentioning that FB’s ad bidding system is completely automated, so prices are almost entirely determined by demand and ad spots. The other side is that, pizza business is not in the business of making a website or dealing with technology. They are in the business of managing a restaurant which is hard work. Anything that takes away technology work can be a huge plus for them, especially if they don’t have to manage it. When I worked in a restaurant, it would be 12-14 hour shifts. Leadership would do those shifts nearly every single day putting out (non-literal) fires and keeping the ship afloat. You have to pick your battles carefully when running restaurant. I find it painful when people say.. let’s just go back to the old form of advertising. Old form of advertising highly favored large conglomerates, because the ad spots were limited. Instead businesses had to rely on word of mouth. But what if you are a small internet business making niche jewelry or whatever? Well, if you only rely on word of mouth you will probably saturate your customer base early. Instead if you could put out ads for your demographic cheaply across your entire country, now you are talking! Does that mean FB is net good? I think that is up to the individual, I’m not going to tell people otherwise. But there is value there, and everyone should recognize that even if they don’t believe it is net good.
GoblinSlayer 5y ago
Rather why a pizzeria would want a worldwide presence? Do they ship pizza worldwide?
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  Google and competitors are reasonably good at showing web sites and contacts of local businesses and also displaying them on a the map.
  - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
    They are discoverable by walking around your neighborhood. Unless you want to order from someone beyond your neighborhood.
    - Cederfjard 5y ago
      You’re never in a new neighborhood with limited time to wander around? Do you always keep up to date with every shop in your local area? There are dozens and dozens of establishments within walking distance from where I live. And yeah, what if you do want to order from a bit further away? To ask what the point of being on Google is because people can find you by walking seems almost deliberately obtuse.
ineedasername 5y ago
The pizzeria I use most frequently used to have a website, but it's now either gone or undiscoverable by search. Facebook comes up in search, but it's good deliver services like GrubHub at the top. The GrubHub result is the most frustrating, because the pizzeria does it's own direct delivery too. And if you get it delivered through GrubHub, or even call the place via the # GrubHub lists, GrubHub gets a fee if some sort. Google at least still shows their business listing in the right margin of search results though, so hopefully people mostly use that.
jldugger 5y ago
Total Derail inbound > Every pizzeria I know has a web site. This is because pizza delivery is insanely profitable. Over the past decade, Domino's Pizza has outperformed FB and Google. By a _lot_. They have plenty of incentive to spend on marketing and reachability. And they have far more leverage than tech does, in terms of consumer preference. Think of it like this: if you want to order pizza, and your preferred pizzeria isn't on Apple Maps, do you order from somewhere else? No, you load up Google Maps instead. Or any of the other dozen replacements for the Yellow Pages launched in the past 20 years. And they all fall over themselves to find and add these places, making it easy to list (just a postcard in Google's case).

101008 5y ago

Where do you live?

qwerty456127 5y ago
In Europe.

efdee 5y ago

> There also are totally free hosting platforms (some ad-sponsored perhaps, but this is tolerable and better than nothing), many come with a WYSIWYG constructor (mostly producing shitty code but still Okay as compared to no WWW presence at all). There also are GitHub Pages which give you great static page hosting + news posting for free if you know basic git (and there already are enough of people around who know git and will make you a GitHub page if you just give them a free pizza or two, me included). I don't understand how you can type this and then still say you don't understand why people just create a free Facebook page instead. And that is not even touching on the network effect that your Facebook page enjoys.

qwerty456127 5y ago
I just mean it's very far from being prohibitively hard/expensive for an average Joey the baker to get a personal web page outside Facebook.
- wbl 5y ago
  Joey's business is pizza, not making websites.
  - airstrike 5y ago
    Nor is their business paying taxes, hiring or advertising, yet they seem to manage to do all of those on a regular basis.
    - johnisgood 5y ago
      Or starting a business to begin with.

relativ575 5y ago

It doesn't make any sense for a pizzeria to concern themselves with buying a domain, creating a website; finding a hosting; advertising the website; and maintaining it. The point of FB is being easy to set up, and much more importantly, getting the traffic. Ask yourself, how hard is it to cook, yet how often people are eating out? (pandemic constraint excluded) A contractor of mine gets most of his business via his FB page, and he knows absolutely nothing about coding. He complains a lot about labor shortage. Imagine he'd have to worry about finding a web developer as well.

philote 5y ago
If a pizzaria wants business, it makes sense for them to advertise and have a way for people to find them. There are many alternatives to Facebook to help businesses do that, just like there are many ad agencies for them to use to get their ads on radio and TV. Business of course want to keep costs low and FB is (AFAIK) "free" to get started on. But once they get on FB, don't they still need to expand their reach by using Facebook ads? Or is just having a page enough? (I don't use FB so I'm clueless how that works)
- fsociety 5y ago
  This is the real value proposition, Ben Thompson has a lot of good articles on the good and bad of Facebook. Radio and TV ads are expensive because they can only serve one ad spot at a time. Plus, my understanding from friends in advertising is that TV spots can become quite expensive as demand rises. You can get books which tell you roughly the cost of advertising for all different types of media. Whereas at a single point in time, Facebook can sell many ad spots and allow individuals to target certain groups of people. Unsurprisingly, media thinks you can do very specific ad targeting but you can’t.. not to the level of doomsday-ness that people suggest. They’ve put limits on the min # of people you can target. It is worth mentioning that FB’s ad bidding system is completely automated, so prices are almost entirely determined by demand and ad spots. The other side is that, pizza business is not in the business of making a website or dealing with technology. They are in the business of managing a restaurant which is hard work. Anything that takes away technology work can be a huge plus for them, especially if they don’t have to manage it. When I worked in a restaurant, it would be 12-14 hour shifts. Leadership would do those shifts nearly every single day putting out (non-literal) fires and keeping the ship afloat. You have to pick your battles carefully when running restaurant. I find it painful when people say.. let’s just go back to the old form of advertising. Old form of advertising highly favored large conglomerates, because the ad spots were limited. Instead businesses had to rely on word of mouth. But what if you are a small internet business making niche jewelry or whatever? Well, if you only rely on word of mouth you will probably saturate your customer base early. Instead if you could put out ads for your demographic cheaply across your entire country, now you are talking! Does that mean FB is net good? I think that is up to the individual, I’m not going to tell people otherwise. But there is value there, and everyone should recognize that even if they don’t believe it is net good.

GoblinSlayer 5y ago

Rather why a pizzeria would want a worldwide presence? Do they ship pizza worldwide?

qwerty456127 5y ago
Google and competitors are reasonably good at showing web sites and contacts of local businesses and also displaying them on a the map.
- GoblinSlayer 5y ago
  They are discoverable by walking around your neighborhood. Unless you want to order from someone beyond your neighborhood.
  - Cederfjard 5y ago
    You’re never in a new neighborhood with limited time to wander around? Do you always keep up to date with every shop in your local area? There are dozens and dozens of establishments within walking distance from where I live. And yeah, what if you do want to order from a bit further away? To ask what the point of being on Google is because people can find you by walking seems almost deliberately obtuse.

ineedasername 5y ago

The pizzeria I use most frequently used to have a website, but it's now either gone or undiscoverable by search. Facebook comes up in search, but it's good deliver services like GrubHub at the top. The GrubHub result is the most frustrating, because the pizzeria does it's own direct delivery too. And if you get it delivered through GrubHub, or even call the place via the # GrubHub lists, GrubHub gets a fee if some sort. Google at least still shows their business listing in the right margin of search results though, so hopefully people mostly use that.

jldugger 5y ago

Total Derail inbound > Every pizzeria I know has a web site. This is because pizza delivery is insanely profitable. Over the past decade, Domino's Pizza has outperformed FB and Google. By a _lot_. They have plenty of incentive to spend on marketing and reachability. And they have far more leverage than tech does, in terms of consumer preference. Think of it like this: if you want to order pizza, and your preferred pizzeria isn't on Apple Maps, do you order from somewhere else? No, you load up Google Maps instead. Or any of the other dozen replacements for the Yellow Pages launched in the past 20 years. And they all fall over themselves to find and add these places, making it easy to list (just a postcard in Google's case).