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> What? This doesn’t make any sense. 0dte options are often some of the most actively traded. But I’m not really sure you get this stuff. Did you miss the “far

> What? This doesn’t make any sense. 0dte options are often some of the most actively traded. But I’m not really sure you get this stuff. Did you miss the “far out of the money” part of my comment? What’s the bid/ask on the Oct 8 SPX 4550C going to be at open tomorrow, assuming SPX opens around 4400? Bid 0.00, Ask 0.05 I also understand there is resting (and possibly hidden, depending on the order types allowed by the exchange) liquidity on the order book that would be there if USDT collapsed and MMs pulled out, but how long do you think it would take for orders to evaporate for an asset that is rapidly approaching a 0 dollar valuation? I’m just a dumb amateur, but I have a basic grasp of the mechanics.

qeternity 5y ago
> What’s the bid/ask on the Oct 8 SPX 4550C going to be at open tomorrow, assuming SPX opens around 4400? Bid 0.00, Ask 0.05 Minimum price tick == 0.05 on ES options. I would sell you some for 0.01 but Globex won’t let me.
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  I’m not buying any 4550Cs. You do understand my original comment chain was talking about a complete tether collapse where it has 0 value and not just a temporary dip in price.. right? Go read arcticbull’s comment about 6 levels up, that’s the scenario I was referring to in my comment. I’ve traded both ES and SPX options so you can stop quizzing me about them. By the way, minimum price tick on ES options is .25 (which is $12.50) lmao. If you don’t believe me, look at the option chain, mr career hedge fund options trader guy (your words, not mine).
  - qeternity 5y ago
    > You do understand my original comment chain was talking about a complete tether collapse where it has 0 value and not just a temporary dip in price. Ok, and? If USDT is worthless, you expect market makers to continue to be willing to hold it? You seem upset that an MM would wouldn’t bid > 0 for something with ev = 0. I’m not sure what you actually expect here. A Tether collapse is exactly the sort of moments that market makers don’t want to be involved in, because that’s not what market making is. It’s the definition of toxic/informed flow. > By the way, minimum price tick on ES options is .25 (which is $12.50) lmao. Hey genius, that’s only for options where the premium > 5 which in the above case it isn’t. Per the contract spec: > Reduced Tick: > 0.05 index points = $2.50 for premium at or below 5.00 But you wanna take shots at me? Adorable. > I’ve traded both ES and SPX options so you can stop quizzing me about them. Haha man quit larping on HN. Do you mean SP options? Or maybe you mean SPY options. There are no SPX options because it’s an index, not an underlying. > If you don’t believe me, look at the option chain, mr career hedge fund options trader guy (your words, not mine). Hahaha oh man, I’m dying. So much bravado, so little to show for it. It’s weird because someone like yourself who has totally, for sure, traded loads of ES options…would know this from experience.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Separately from all this, there are SPX options, they're cash-settled European index options (for those on the sidelines American options can be exercised any time up to expiry, European only on the day of expiry) with a $100/tick notional contract value. They're super useful if you want to trade indices (as compared to say SPY options) because you don't have to deal with dividend-triggered exercise risk and they offer 60% long term capital gains tax treatment no matter how long you hold them for (like futures and futures options). [1] [edit] They do trade under various tickers depending on the exchange though, so maybe that's some of the confusion? Btw, not trying to explain it to you in particular, just to passers-by. [1] https://www.optionistics.com/quotes/stock-option-chains/SPX https://www.optionistics.com/quotes/stock-option-chains/SPX
      - qeternity 5y ago
        Yes, you've got the CBOE crap, you've got a gazillion other smaller venues, and you've got desks at every bank which will write you options on whatever you like. OP is talking about trading ES and SPX, and it was more likely they had confused it with SPY given the other confusion around tick sizes and given the size of the big daddy SP contract (and the language suggested this person had just gone to the CME site and did a bit of copy paste...especially the language about on tick being $12.50, which any spoos trader will know by heart). Anyway - going to leave this one, I think I've added all the value I can add.
        arcticbull 5y ago
        Thanks for your perspective! I always love hearing what finance folks think about all this.
        perl4ever 5y ago
        I don't have any experience trading index options on the S&P 500, but they seem to be (at least sometimes) displayed as "$SPX.X". I would've thought that SPX would be a natural shorthand, even though it is also the index itself. Also, I thought Joe/Jane Schmoe could just trade (some) index options with a regular broker, providing they have enough money.

qeternity 5y ago

> What’s the bid/ask on the Oct 8 SPX 4550C going to be at open tomorrow, assuming SPX opens around 4400? Bid 0.00, Ask 0.05 Minimum price tick == 0.05 on ES options. I would sell you some for 0.01 but Globex won’t let me.

quickthrowman 5y ago
I’m not buying any 4550Cs. You do understand my original comment chain was talking about a complete tether collapse where it has 0 value and not just a temporary dip in price.. right? Go read arcticbull’s comment about 6 levels up, that’s the scenario I was referring to in my comment. I’ve traded both ES and SPX options so you can stop quizzing me about them. By the way, minimum price tick on ES options is .25 (which is $12.50) lmao. If you don’t believe me, look at the option chain, mr career hedge fund options trader guy (your words, not mine).
- qeternity 5y ago
  > You do understand my original comment chain was talking about a complete tether collapse where it has 0 value and not just a temporary dip in price. Ok, and? If USDT is worthless, you expect market makers to continue to be willing to hold it? You seem upset that an MM would wouldn’t bid > 0 for something with ev = 0. I’m not sure what you actually expect here. A Tether collapse is exactly the sort of moments that market makers don’t want to be involved in, because that’s not what market making is. It’s the definition of toxic/informed flow. > By the way, minimum price tick on ES options is .25 (which is $12.50) lmao. Hey genius, that’s only for options where the premium > 5 which in the above case it isn’t. Per the contract spec: > Reduced Tick: > 0.05 index points = $2.50 for premium at or below 5.00 But you wanna take shots at me? Adorable. > I’ve traded both ES and SPX options so you can stop quizzing me about them. Haha man quit larping on HN. Do you mean SP options? Or maybe you mean SPY options. There are no SPX options because it’s an index, not an underlying. > If you don’t believe me, look at the option chain, mr career hedge fund options trader guy (your words, not mine). Hahaha oh man, I’m dying. So much bravado, so little to show for it. It’s weird because someone like yourself who has totally, for sure, traded loads of ES options…would know this from experience.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Separately from all this, there are SPX options, they're cash-settled European index options (for those on the sidelines American options can be exercised any time up to expiry, European only on the day of expiry) with a $100/tick notional contract value. They're super useful if you want to trade indices (as compared to say SPY options) because you don't have to deal with dividend-triggered exercise risk and they offer 60% long term capital gains tax treatment no matter how long you hold them for (like futures and futures options). [1] [edit] They do trade under various tickers depending on the exchange though, so maybe that's some of the confusion? Btw, not trying to explain it to you in particular, just to passers-by. [1] https://www.optionistics.com/quotes/stock-option-chains/SPX https://www.optionistics.com/quotes/stock-option-chains/SPX
    - qeternity 5y ago
      Yes, you've got the CBOE crap, you've got a gazillion other smaller venues, and you've got desks at every bank which will write you options on whatever you like. OP is talking about trading ES and SPX, and it was more likely they had confused it with SPY given the other confusion around tick sizes and given the size of the big daddy SP contract (and the language suggested this person had just gone to the CME site and did a bit of copy paste...especially the language about on tick being $12.50, which any spoos trader will know by heart). Anyway - going to leave this one, I think I've added all the value I can add.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Thanks for your perspective! I always love hearing what finance folks think about all this.
      - perl4ever 5y ago
        I don't have any experience trading index options on the S&P 500, but they seem to be (at least sometimes) displayed as "$SPX.X". I would've thought that SPX would be a natural shorthand, even though it is also the index itself. Also, I thought Joe/Jane Schmoe could just trade (some) index options with a regular broker, providing they have enough money.