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If California somehow repealed Prop 13, you would see their property tax rate zoom up to the point where Texas property taxes wouldn't seem that outrageous by c

by jdhn 5y ago

If California somehow repealed Prop 13, you would see their property tax rate zoom up to the point where Texas property taxes wouldn't seem that outrageous by comparison.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bdowling 5y ago
> If California somehow repealed Prop 13... In November 2020, California scaled back on some of the benefits of Prop 13 for families. Prior to Prop 19, properties could pass from parents to children and the property tax basis would not increase. Now, the benefit is limited to the parents' primary residence, the inheriting child or children need to reside in the property for one year as their primary residence, and the amount excluded from reassessment is limited to $1m. The main proponents of Prop 19 were realtors who expected the change to result in more sales of properties after parents die. I haven't seen data on it, but they were probably right. There will probably be more sales as children who inherit their parents' properties can't afford to keep them after reassessment. Prop 19 was titled the "The Home Protection for Seniors, Severely Disabled, Families, and Victims of Wildfire or Natural Disasters Act" because it allowed seniors and victims of wildfires to sell a home and buy a new one anywhere in the state and carry over their current property tax assessment, regardless of the sale price. However, it totally undermined one of the best ways for families to pass wealth on to their children, the acquisition of properties for investment. Corporations, of course, were unaffected.
- thebradbain 5y ago
  Well, considering most of those heirs who are not using it as their primary home would just end up using those homes to rent out at market rate anyways, it makes sense to tax it. If they don't want to deal with that, they can just sell it. Commercial properties over $3 million were also affected. Those moving into the inherited home as their primary residence a̶r̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶f̶f̶e̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ EDIT (see comment below): *will be re-assessed, but includes a generous exclusion of the first $1 million. I'm a would-be beneficiary of Prop 13 Pre-19 and a homeowner in Los Angeles, and even I voted for this reform. I would vote to repeal Prop 13 in whole if I could. Prop 13 was originally meant to protect middle-class Californians from losing their primary home (for which other alternatives exist: see TX. Your primary home cannot be taken from you for tax reasons or in bankruptcy) – not a tax loophole for generational wealth.
  - bdowling 5y ago
    > Those moving into the inherited home as their primary residence are not affected. Not true. Only $1m of assessed value is excluded for heirs moving into an inherited property as a primary residence. Inheriting property worth more than $1m is not a bad problem to have, but in places like Los Angeles it means that a lot of people not be able to afford to live in the property and will be faced with either fixing it up for use as a rental or selling the home they grew up in.
    - thebradbain 5y ago
      Thanks for the correction -- you're right. It doesn't really change my point though – I still don't see why a $2M+ property deserves to get transferred tax free. A $2M property would still only pay a little over $10,000/year in property taxes after the $1M exemption (which you can deduct against federal taxes, even with the SALT cap, which itself will likely repealed!). A pretty nice discount for an heir compared to someone who just went through actually buying a $2M home and pays twice the tax. Honestly, if you're inheriting up to a $5M home for free in CA, and are still reliant on a job to make ends meet, the payment probably comes out to more or less what you would pay in a mortgage+taxes for a ~$1M home. A pretty good deal! If you're inheriting anything more than a $5M home, then I don't really think Prop 13 was intended for you in the first place – people with $10, $50, $100 million+ properties, well, it's my belief that we shouldn't be basing our entire housing policy on what's best for them. They can likely afford the taxes. Not to mention that you can only shield a house from re-assessment for 1 generation, so even if there was a multi-million dollar family home that this family simply couldn't afford to pay taxes on otherwise, the heir of the heir would have to pay taxes regardless. So what's so privileged about the situation that tax reassessment gets to skip a generation? The law as is is designed to benefit a shrinking sliver of the CA population while debatably actively hurting the rest. I think a decent compromise that won't actively pull the rug out from anyone while also leveling the playing field is just ending Prop 13-related inheritance exemptions altogether. It wasn't even part of the original law. Then get rid of the exemption for all commercial and secondary/investment properties going forward. Let people live in their primary homes with a frozen tax basis, sure, just don't let them transfer it (and for the edge case, to encourage downsizing after becoming "empty nesters", allow people to transfer their assessed tax basis to a property of lesser or equal market value).
asdff 5y ago
Aren't they still half of what they are in austin?

by jdhn 5y ago

If California somehow repealed Prop 13, you would see their property tax rate zoom up to the point where Texas property taxes wouldn't seem that outrageous by comparison.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bdowling 5y ago

> If California somehow repealed Prop 13... In November 2020, California scaled back on some of the benefits of Prop 13 for families. Prior to Prop 19, properties could pass from parents to children and the property tax basis would not increase. Now, the benefit is limited to the parents' primary residence, the inheriting child or children need to reside in the property for one year as their primary residence, and the amount excluded from reassessment is limited to $1m. The main proponents of Prop 19 were realtors who expected the change to result in more sales of properties after parents die. I haven't seen data on it, but they were probably right. There will probably be more sales as children who inherit their parents' properties can't afford to keep them after reassessment. Prop 19 was titled the "The Home Protection for Seniors, Severely Disabled, Families, and Victims of Wildfire or Natural Disasters Act" because it allowed seniors and victims of wildfires to sell a home and buy a new one anywhere in the state and carry over their current property tax assessment, regardless of the sale price. However, it totally undermined one of the best ways for families to pass wealth on to their children, the acquisition of properties for investment. Corporations, of course, were unaffected.

thebradbain 5y ago
Well, considering most of those heirs who are not using it as their primary home would just end up using those homes to rent out at market rate anyways, it makes sense to tax it. If they don't want to deal with that, they can just sell it. Commercial properties over $3 million were also affected. Those moving into the inherited home as their primary residence a̶r̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶f̶f̶e̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ EDIT (see comment below): *will be re-assessed, but includes a generous exclusion of the first $1 million. I'm a would-be beneficiary of Prop 13 Pre-19 and a homeowner in Los Angeles, and even I voted for this reform. I would vote to repeal Prop 13 in whole if I could. Prop 13 was originally meant to protect middle-class Californians from losing their primary home (for which other alternatives exist: see TX. Your primary home cannot be taken from you for tax reasons or in bankruptcy) – not a tax loophole for generational wealth.
- bdowling 5y ago
  > Those moving into the inherited home as their primary residence are not affected. Not true. Only $1m of assessed value is excluded for heirs moving into an inherited property as a primary residence. Inheriting property worth more than $1m is not a bad problem to have, but in places like Los Angeles it means that a lot of people not be able to afford to live in the property and will be faced with either fixing it up for use as a rental or selling the home they grew up in.
  - thebradbain 5y ago
    Thanks for the correction -- you're right. It doesn't really change my point though – I still don't see why a $2M+ property deserves to get transferred tax free. A $2M property would still only pay a little over $10,000/year in property taxes after the $1M exemption (which you can deduct against federal taxes, even with the SALT cap, which itself will likely repealed!). A pretty nice discount for an heir compared to someone who just went through actually buying a $2M home and pays twice the tax. Honestly, if you're inheriting up to a $5M home for free in CA, and are still reliant on a job to make ends meet, the payment probably comes out to more or less what you would pay in a mortgage+taxes for a ~$1M home. A pretty good deal! If you're inheriting anything more than a $5M home, then I don't really think Prop 13 was intended for you in the first place – people with $10, $50, $100 million+ properties, well, it's my belief that we shouldn't be basing our entire housing policy on what's best for them. They can likely afford the taxes. Not to mention that you can only shield a house from re-assessment for 1 generation, so even if there was a multi-million dollar family home that this family simply couldn't afford to pay taxes on otherwise, the heir of the heir would have to pay taxes regardless. So what's so privileged about the situation that tax reassessment gets to skip a generation? The law as is is designed to benefit a shrinking sliver of the CA population while debatably actively hurting the rest. I think a decent compromise that won't actively pull the rug out from anyone while also leveling the playing field is just ending Prop 13-related inheritance exemptions altogether. It wasn't even part of the original law. Then get rid of the exemption for all commercial and secondary/investment properties going forward. Let people live in their primary homes with a frozen tax basis, sure, just don't let them transfer it (and for the edge case, to encourage downsizing after becoming "empty nesters", allow people to transfer their assessed tax basis to a property of lesser or equal market value).

asdff 5y ago

Aren't they still half of what they are in austin?