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Was overwork / fatigue what caused the incidents OP listed?

by yibg 5y ago

kodah 5y ago
It has been a historical issue for the Navy with respect to accidents: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-21-366.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-21-366.pdf I don't think those details have been released on this incident though.
rmk 5y ago
That is a possibility. The navy has had at least two serious collisions with other ships in recent years. Oddly enough, touchscreen-based UIs were determined to be one of the contributing factors! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crystal_collision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crys...
- ngcc_hk 5y ago
  Not related. But no real (even if configurable) button sucks a lot. It is not because old hand but imagine a pure iphone like camera for very quick photographic decision. Or video. Move to a moving platform. A lot of our muscle memory and sense help us. God bless.
- dctoedt 5y ago
  > Oddly enough, touchscreen-based UIs were determined to be one of the contributing factors! There's no substitute for looking around (which of course is impossible in a submarine below periscope depth). As a JOOD* underway aboard an aircraft carrier, I had a tendency to spend a lot of time looking at the radar scope. But as soon as I qualified and started standing OOD* watches, I realized that I had switched to constantly scanning the horizon and the flight deck and only occasionally glancing at the radar. * OOD = Officer of the Deck, the person on watch who's responsible for the safe navigation of the ship for that "watch" (generally, a four-hour period), reporting to the commanding officer. JOOD = Junior Officer of the Deck, in training to be an OOD.
jedc 5y ago
Sometimes, sometimes not. In the case of the boat I was on, it wasn't fatigue, it was people new to their jobs combined with some stupidity.
- notadev 5y ago
  There’s also the issue of half-assed murder boards qualifying people before they’re actually qualified.
RappingBoomer 5y ago
who knows at this point, at least with regard to this latest incident, but it is always a possibility, given that the navy traditionally overworks enlisted crews on subs and gives them substandard living conditions... when i was on a fast attack sub 40 yrs ago, I had to work 6 hrs on and 6 hrs off, around the clock, while underway...and during one of my 2 6 hrs shifts off, I had the opportunity to sleep in a cot where two other men also slept during their shifts...it's called hot bunking... this all goes back centuries, back to when navy crews were often kidnapped and made virtual slaves...the navy has always been operated for the benefit of the officer class... and nowadays we have the issue of lowered standards as well.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  > back to when navy crews were often kidnapped This was called "Shanghaiing"[0] or "Impressment"[1] (ala a "press gang") and has an interesting history: https://www.amusingplanet.com/2018/04/shanghaiing-how-trickery-and-deception.html https://www.amusingplanet.com/2018/04/shanghaiing-how-tricke... (also see [3]) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghaiing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghaiing [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressment [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kelly_(crimper) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kelly_(crimper)

Was overwork / fatigue what caused the incidents OP listed?

by yibg 5y ago

Was overwork / fatigue what caused the incidents OP listed?

It has been a historical issue for the Navy with respect to accidents: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-21-366.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-21-366.pdf I don't think those details have been released on this incident though.

rmk 5y ago

That is a possibility. The navy has had at least two serious collisions with other ships in recent years. Oddly enough, touchscreen-based UIs were determined to be one of the contributing factors! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crystal_collision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crys...

ngcc_hk 5y ago
Not related. But no real (even if configurable) button sucks a lot. It is not because old hand but imagine a pure iphone like camera for very quick photographic decision. Or video. Move to a moving platform. A lot of our muscle memory and sense help us. God bless.
dctoedt 5y ago
> Oddly enough, touchscreen-based UIs were determined to be one of the contributing factors! There's no substitute for looking around (which of course is impossible in a submarine below periscope depth). As a JOOD* underway aboard an aircraft carrier, I had a tendency to spend a lot of time looking at the radar scope. But as soon as I qualified and started standing OOD* watches, I realized that I had switched to constantly scanning the horizon and the flight deck and only occasionally glancing at the radar. * OOD = Officer of the Deck, the person on watch who's responsible for the safe navigation of the ship for that "watch" (generally, a four-hour period), reporting to the commanding officer. JOOD = Junior Officer of the Deck, in training to be an OOD.

jedc 5y ago

Sometimes, sometimes not. In the case of the boat I was on, it wasn't fatigue, it was people new to their jobs combined with some stupidity.

notadev 5y ago
There’s also the issue of half-assed murder boards qualifying people before they’re actually qualified.

RappingBoomer 5y ago

who knows at this point, at least with regard to this latest incident, but it is always a possibility, given that the navy traditionally overworks enlisted crews on subs and gives them substandard living conditions... when i was on a fast attack sub 40 yrs ago, I had to work 6 hrs on and 6 hrs off, around the clock, while underway...and during one of my 2 6 hrs shifts off, I had the opportunity to sleep in a cot where two other men also slept during their shifts...it's called hot bunking... this all goes back centuries, back to when navy crews were often kidnapped and made virtual slaves...the navy has always been operated for the benefit of the officer class... and nowadays we have the issue of lowered standards as well.

Chris2048 5y ago
> back to when navy crews were often kidnapped This was called "Shanghaiing"[0] or "Impressment"[1] (ala a "press gang") and has an interesting history: https://www.amusingplanet.com/2018/04/shanghaiing-how-trickery-and-deception.html https://www.amusingplanet.com/2018/04/shanghaiing-how-tricke... (also see [3]) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghaiing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghaiing [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressment [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kelly_(crimper) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kelly_(crimper)