4 ms·

A Ford dealership would be liable for selling counterfeit Fords, or at least would be responsible for helping track down where that counterfeit came from.

by dymk 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
0des 5y ago
dymk, while you prompted this post, this has nothing to do with you, so ear muff it for a sec if you don't mind. If I may briefly stand on my soapbox: I'm starting to think analogies never help prove a point. No matter how relevant or true they might be, someone will pull some comparison out of the analogy and use that to detract from the main point being compared and expect that comparison to be a valid rebuttal, often to great popular success. Anybody else notice this?
- dymk 5y ago
  Absolutely. My post is really making a meta point about the analogies I see here. You can make an analogy that makes any point you want if you stretch it enough. Fight bad analogies with bad analogies. Show off how useless a tool they are.
- chc 5y ago
  When used well, analogies aren't meant to prove a point, they're to illustrate a point. It is actually useful for two people to offer different analogies that they think are appropriate, because it helps to show their point of view. What is useless is treating an analogy as though it had the force of argument.
- stavros 5y ago
  Yes, all the time. I don't know why people do this, it's as if they lose track of the conversation and think they're debating the analogy itself, rather than the thing the analogy is meant to illustrate. It's very frustrating when they make a counterpoint to the analogy that doesn't actually correspond back to the original point.
- sigstoat 5y ago
  > I'm starting to think analogies never help prove a point. HN is particularly bad for chains of increasingly surreal analogies, each of which the poster seems to think is a silver bullet. the analogies are some of the least useful content on the site, next to sarcasm.
- teddyh 5y ago
  This is a point which Scott Adams makes: Analogies can never convince people, only explain a subject which people do not yet understand.
  - teddyh 5y ago
    When I searched to verify, I see that, by sheer coincidence, Scott Adams today apparently posted a video covering this very subject: https://www.youtube.com/embed/n45D_zi3O5g?start=853&end=1450 https://www.youtube.com/embed/n45D_zi3O5g?start=853&end=1450
  - hansel_der 5y ago
    they can but they shouldn't
- Planktonne 5y ago
  > someone will pull some comparison out of the analogy and use that to detract > to great popular success This is an HN audience issue, not an analogy one.
  - teddyh 5y ago
    Only insofar as the HN audience consists of people. It’s a people “problem”.
    - Planktonne 5y ago
      The HN audience is not perfectly reflective of wider society. One obvious example is that people on this site tend to be more technically aware than the wider population, but that's not the only relevant characteristic. The userbase here tends to be technical, tends towards (or is at least dominated by) particular political positions, and seems to be much more literally-minded than other online communities.
thaumasiotes 5y ago
Cloudflare's not selling the website. Is the Ford dealership liable when you show up at their door, ask how to get to 1308 Halifax, they direct you there, and then the people at 1308 Halifax sell you a counterfeit Ford? Is the landlord at 1308 Halifax liable when his tenants sell someone a counterfeit Ford?
- asdff 5y ago
  If you tell the landlord their tenant is selling counterfeit fords and they do nothing and continue to collect rent from the counterfeiter while looking the other way, at what point are they complicit in the crime?
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    Never. How would they be complicit in the crime?
    - asdff 5y ago
      Aiding and abbetting by continuing to collect rent from an known criminal engaging in criminal behavior on their property
jaytaylor 5y ago
..otherwise Ford will hurt financially? This is not a comparable analogy, CF isn't selling each website you visit. They are providing Privacy and Security via 100% automated tools. Perhaps take it up with the registrar, or file a lawsuit against CF and the Reg and get a court ordered TakeDown. There are avenues of resolution for such disputes, if one is passionate enough to exercise them.

A Ford dealership would be liable for selling counterfeit Fords, or at least would be responsible for helping track down where that counterfeit came from.

by dymk 5y ago

A Ford dealership would be liable for selling counterfeit Fords, or at least would be responsible for helping track down where that counterfeit came from.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

0des 5y ago

dymk, while you prompted this post, this has nothing to do with you, so ear muff it for a sec if you don't mind. If I may briefly stand on my soapbox: I'm starting to think analogies never help prove a point. No matter how relevant or true they might be, someone will pull some comparison out of the analogy and use that to detract from the main point being compared and expect that comparison to be a valid rebuttal, often to great popular success. Anybody else notice this?

dymk 5y ago
Absolutely. My post is really making a meta point about the analogies I see here. You can make an analogy that makes any point you want if you stretch it enough. Fight bad analogies with bad analogies. Show off how useless a tool they are.
chc 5y ago
When used well, analogies aren't meant to prove a point, they're to illustrate a point. It is actually useful for two people to offer different analogies that they think are appropriate, because it helps to show their point of view. What is useless is treating an analogy as though it had the force of argument.
stavros 5y ago
Yes, all the time. I don't know why people do this, it's as if they lose track of the conversation and think they're debating the analogy itself, rather than the thing the analogy is meant to illustrate. It's very frustrating when they make a counterpoint to the analogy that doesn't actually correspond back to the original point.
sigstoat 5y ago
> I'm starting to think analogies never help prove a point. HN is particularly bad for chains of increasingly surreal analogies, each of which the poster seems to think is a silver bullet. the analogies are some of the least useful content on the site, next to sarcasm.
teddyh 5y ago
This is a point which Scott Adams makes: Analogies can never convince people, only explain a subject which people do not yet understand.
- teddyh 5y ago
  When I searched to verify, I see that, by sheer coincidence, Scott Adams today apparently posted a video covering this very subject: https://www.youtube.com/embed/n45D_zi3O5g?start=853&end=1450 https://www.youtube.com/embed/n45D_zi3O5g?start=853&end=1450
- hansel_der 5y ago
  they can but they shouldn't
Planktonne 5y ago
> someone will pull some comparison out of the analogy and use that to detract > to great popular success This is an HN audience issue, not an analogy one.
- teddyh 5y ago
  Only insofar as the HN audience consists of people. It’s a people “problem”.
  - Planktonne 5y ago
    The HN audience is not perfectly reflective of wider society. One obvious example is that people on this site tend to be more technically aware than the wider population, but that's not the only relevant characteristic. The userbase here tends to be technical, tends towards (or is at least dominated by) particular political positions, and seems to be much more literally-minded than other online communities.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

Cloudflare's not selling the website. Is the Ford dealership liable when you show up at their door, ask how to get to 1308 Halifax, they direct you there, and then the people at 1308 Halifax sell you a counterfeit Ford? Is the landlord at 1308 Halifax liable when his tenants sell someone a counterfeit Ford?

asdff 5y ago
If you tell the landlord their tenant is selling counterfeit fords and they do nothing and continue to collect rent from the counterfeiter while looking the other way, at what point are they complicit in the crime?
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  Never. How would they be complicit in the crime?
  - asdff 5y ago
    Aiding and abbetting by continuing to collect rent from an known criminal engaging in criminal behavior on their property

jaytaylor 5y ago

..otherwise Ford will hurt financially? This is not a comparable analogy, CF isn't selling each website you visit. They are providing Privacy and Security via 100% automated tools. Perhaps take it up with the registrar, or file a lawsuit against CF and the Reg and get a court ordered TakeDown. There are avenues of resolution for such disputes, if one is passionate enough to exercise them.