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Well, if the computer can recognize the situation it can always slow down, alert the driver, and eventually stop. That's the nice thing about cars: There's alwa

Well, if the computer can recognize the situation it can always slow down, alert the driver, and eventually stop. That's the nice thing about cars: There's always a safe default mode. I suspect that the computer cannot recognize this problem reliably, though.

mindslight 5y ago
Slowing down to under 40mph is not a safe thing to do on a highway and is illegal in many places. And suddenly slowing down is extra unsafe when there's a car right behind you that's also being blinded.
- myself248 5y ago
  Slowing down on a highway is required by law in many areas, in the presence of emergency vehicles.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    Yes, by 10-20mph. Not down to <40mph. I thought it was a smart idea when I first saw signs about it on a road trip many years ago, and incorporated it into my own driving before the law had been widely adopted. I aim to do most of my driving at less busy times, so I often end up moving over a lane even if I'm not in the rightmost lane. And actually it's a good idea to do the same for all stopped vehicles, regardless of lights - amateurs are even more likely to make mistakes.
    - UncleEntity 5y ago
      I see flashy lights on the highway and I can’t tell for sure what’s going on I for sure slow down <40 mph because for all you know they could be up to anything that requires you to come to a complete stop. Especially if the blinding lights are especially blinding.
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  So just keep on trucking along at full speed with your eyes closed, you reckon. Spoken like a true Tesla engineer.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    I specifically laid out what I do, and what I believe most other people do, as humans having to cope with increased danger. I'm in no way trying to defend Tesla, but rather pointing out a general road hazard that needlessly exists and that perhaps isn't being handled gracefully by automation. This idea that a vehicle can always fall back to stopping comes from the same mistaken place as asserting that a human driver can take over at a moment's notice.
    - brokenmachine 5y ago
      Well there's really only two options for a self driving car that has lost situational awareness - (1) keep going at the same speed, or (2) slow down and alert the driver (and possibly stop if the driver doesn't respond). Choeger was suggesting that (2) was the prudent option. You replied and appeared to be suggesting the first option because slowing down was dangerous. But I contend that (1) is the more dangerous option if situational awareness has been lost.
      - mindslight 5y ago
        Like handing control back to the human, it depends on the timescale. Over longer periods, yes, obviously the only sane option is to stop. But if confidence in sensors or analysis suddenly drops, especially when the system is still under development and unknowns are expected, the response needs to be graceful rather than sudden. This is reflected in their comment generally, but talks past the context of my comment. In the scenario I'm envisioning, most of the view is fine right up until say the last ten seconds, where the dynamic range of the camera is suddenly overloaded. That's not enough time to talk about stopping or handing off control, and slowing down isn't going to help with the automation having lost the lane. A human gets through the situation by making a plan ahead of time, including taking note of how a road curves and guessing that the lane will remain clear. Whereas I can imagine automation responding in a horribly wrong way.

mindslight 5y ago

Slowing down to under 40mph is not a safe thing to do on a highway and is illegal in many places. And suddenly slowing down is extra unsafe when there's a car right behind you that's also being blinded.

myself248 5y ago
Slowing down on a highway is required by law in many areas, in the presence of emergency vehicles.
- mindslight 5y ago
  Yes, by 10-20mph. Not down to <40mph. I thought it was a smart idea when I first saw signs about it on a road trip many years ago, and incorporated it into my own driving before the law had been widely adopted. I aim to do most of my driving at less busy times, so I often end up moving over a lane even if I'm not in the rightmost lane. And actually it's a good idea to do the same for all stopped vehicles, regardless of lights - amateurs are even more likely to make mistakes.
  - UncleEntity 5y ago
    I see flashy lights on the highway and I can’t tell for sure what’s going on I for sure slow down <40 mph because for all you know they could be up to anything that requires you to come to a complete stop. Especially if the blinding lights are especially blinding.
brokenmachine 5y ago
So just keep on trucking along at full speed with your eyes closed, you reckon. Spoken like a true Tesla engineer.
- mindslight 5y ago
  I specifically laid out what I do, and what I believe most other people do, as humans having to cope with increased danger. I'm in no way trying to defend Tesla, but rather pointing out a general road hazard that needlessly exists and that perhaps isn't being handled gracefully by automation. This idea that a vehicle can always fall back to stopping comes from the same mistaken place as asserting that a human driver can take over at a moment's notice.
  - brokenmachine 5y ago
    Well there's really only two options for a self driving car that has lost situational awareness - (1) keep going at the same speed, or (2) slow down and alert the driver (and possibly stop if the driver doesn't respond). Choeger was suggesting that (2) was the prudent option. You replied and appeared to be suggesting the first option because slowing down was dangerous. But I contend that (1) is the more dangerous option if situational awareness has been lost.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      Like handing control back to the human, it depends on the timescale. Over longer periods, yes, obviously the only sane option is to stop. But if confidence in sensors or analysis suddenly drops, especially when the system is still under development and unknowns are expected, the response needs to be graceful rather than sudden. This is reflected in their comment generally, but talks past the context of my comment. In the scenario I'm envisioning, most of the view is fine right up until say the last ten seconds, where the dynamic range of the camera is suddenly overloaded. That's not enough time to talk about stopping or handing off control, and slowing down isn't going to help with the automation having lost the lane. A human gets through the situation by making a plan ahead of time, including taking note of how a road curves and guessing that the lane will remain clear. Whereas I can imagine automation responding in a horribly wrong way.