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I think the flashing lights and appearance might degrade autopilot. Other cars also have issues because they use radar (except for some new models with camera-

I think the flashing lights and appearance might degrade autopilot. Other cars also have issues because they use radar (except for some new models with camera-based systems like the 2022 Honda Civic) and ignore stationary targets when they see a moving vehicle as a more likely "target". Some systems use a combination of radar and camera (with camera providing low-speed, parked car, bike, and pedestrian detection). Then it's up to the quality of the algorithms and tests have shown that some cars are pretty poor at detection.

mindslight 5y ago
The human visual system is amazing at normalizing across many orders of magnitudes (cf HDR imaging), but yet with the evolution of LED lights and a lack of accountability, the lights on police cars have gotten way too bright for even human drivers at night. I wouldn't be surprised if the ultimate cause is a complete swamping of the cameras for everything that isn't immediately in front of the car, and even the lane lines disappearing when close enough to the blinding lights. What is a computer supposed to do when confronted with complete loss of visual input? A human will squint, slow down by 10-20mph, extrapolate the lane lines, and play the odds. But there is no surefire way to proceed safely, and thus no straightforward action to program a computer with.
- choeger 5y ago
  Well, if the computer can recognize the situation it can always slow down, alert the driver, and eventually stop. That's the nice thing about cars: There's always a safe default mode. I suspect that the computer cannot recognize this problem reliably, though.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    Slowing down to under 40mph is not a safe thing to do on a highway and is illegal in many places. And suddenly slowing down is extra unsafe when there's a car right behind you that's also being blinded.
    - myself248 5y ago
      Slowing down on a highway is required by law in many areas, in the presence of emergency vehicles.
      - mindslight 5y ago
        Yes, by 10-20mph. Not down to <40mph. I thought it was a smart idea when I first saw signs about it on a road trip many years ago, and incorporated it into my own driving before the law had been widely adopted. I aim to do most of my driving at less busy times, so I often end up moving over a lane even if I'm not in the rightmost lane. And actually it's a good idea to do the same for all stopped vehicles, regardless of lights - amateurs are even more likely to make mistakes.
        UncleEntity 5y ago
        I see flashy lights on the highway and I can’t tell for sure what’s going on I for sure slow down <40 mph because for all you know they could be up to anything that requires you to come to a complete stop. Especially if the blinding lights are especially blinding.
    - brokenmachine 5y ago
      So just keep on trucking along at full speed with your eyes closed, you reckon. Spoken like a true Tesla engineer.
      - mindslight 5y ago
        I specifically laid out what I do, and what I believe most other people do, as humans having to cope with increased danger. I'm in no way trying to defend Tesla, but rather pointing out a general road hazard that needlessly exists and that perhaps isn't being handled gracefully by automation. This idea that a vehicle can always fall back to stopping comes from the same mistaken place as asserting that a human driver can take over at a moment's notice.
fy20 5y ago
I wonder if it would make sense to hand over control to the human, or at least slow down a lot, if the car detects any emergency vehicles with lights flashing. For emergency vehicles parked on the side of the road, there could be all sorts of reasons why you should slow down and move to the other lane. Blasting through 3ft from the vehicle at 80mph isn't the smartest move. I've been in situations where I've had to stop suddenly because a emergency vehicle was coming across my path at a cross road, where the traffic lights were green for me. But as I heard sirens and saw the reflection of blue lights, I knew to slow down well before I saw the vehicle.
- shapefrog 5y ago
  > I wonder if it would make sense to hand over control to the human Handing over control to the driver having a nap seems like a bad idea. Slowing down certainly makes sense, I for one have an inbuilt instinct, when I see flashing lights and a parked police car, I tend to ease off a bit and prepare to stop.

mindslight 5y ago

The human visual system is amazing at normalizing across many orders of magnitudes (cf HDR imaging), but yet with the evolution of LED lights and a lack of accountability, the lights on police cars have gotten way too bright for even human drivers at night. I wouldn't be surprised if the ultimate cause is a complete swamping of the cameras for everything that isn't immediately in front of the car, and even the lane lines disappearing when close enough to the blinding lights. What is a computer supposed to do when confronted with complete loss of visual input? A human will squint, slow down by 10-20mph, extrapolate the lane lines, and play the odds. But there is no surefire way to proceed safely, and thus no straightforward action to program a computer with.

choeger 5y ago
Well, if the computer can recognize the situation it can always slow down, alert the driver, and eventually stop. That's the nice thing about cars: There's always a safe default mode. I suspect that the computer cannot recognize this problem reliably, though.
- mindslight 5y ago
  Slowing down to under 40mph is not a safe thing to do on a highway and is illegal in many places. And suddenly slowing down is extra unsafe when there's a car right behind you that's also being blinded.
  - myself248 5y ago
    Slowing down on a highway is required by law in many areas, in the presence of emergency vehicles.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      Yes, by 10-20mph. Not down to <40mph. I thought it was a smart idea when I first saw signs about it on a road trip many years ago, and incorporated it into my own driving before the law had been widely adopted. I aim to do most of my driving at less busy times, so I often end up moving over a lane even if I'm not in the rightmost lane. And actually it's a good idea to do the same for all stopped vehicles, regardless of lights - amateurs are even more likely to make mistakes.
      - UncleEntity 5y ago
        I see flashy lights on the highway and I can’t tell for sure what’s going on I for sure slow down <40 mph because for all you know they could be up to anything that requires you to come to a complete stop. Especially if the blinding lights are especially blinding.
  - brokenmachine 5y ago
    So just keep on trucking along at full speed with your eyes closed, you reckon. Spoken like a true Tesla engineer.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      I specifically laid out what I do, and what I believe most other people do, as humans having to cope with increased danger. I'm in no way trying to defend Tesla, but rather pointing out a general road hazard that needlessly exists and that perhaps isn't being handled gracefully by automation. This idea that a vehicle can always fall back to stopping comes from the same mistaken place as asserting that a human driver can take over at a moment's notice.

fy20 5y ago

I wonder if it would make sense to hand over control to the human, or at least slow down a lot, if the car detects any emergency vehicles with lights flashing. For emergency vehicles parked on the side of the road, there could be all sorts of reasons why you should slow down and move to the other lane. Blasting through 3ft from the vehicle at 80mph isn't the smartest move. I've been in situations where I've had to stop suddenly because a emergency vehicle was coming across my path at a cross road, where the traffic lights were green for me. But as I heard sirens and saw the reflection of blue lights, I knew to slow down well before I saw the vehicle.

shapefrog 5y ago
> I wonder if it would make sense to hand over control to the human Handing over control to the driver having a nap seems like a bad idea. Slowing down certainly makes sense, I for one have an inbuilt instinct, when I see flashing lights and a parked police car, I tend to ease off a bit and prepare to stop.