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From NEJM Israeli study on Pfizer: "In our study, definite or probable cases of myocarditis among persons between the ages of 16 and 19 years within 21 days af

From NEJM Israeli study on Pfizer: "In our study, definite or probable cases of myocarditis among persons between the ages of 16 and 19 years within 21 days after the second vaccine dose occurred in approximately 1 of 6637 male recipients and in 1 of 99,853 female recipients." Moderna shot is worse then for boys. What again is the rush to vaccinate the lowest risk age group? https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109730?query=recirc_curatedRelated_article&utm_source=pocket_mylist https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109730?query=re...

silicon2401 5y ago
this is exactly why the dogmatic culture around vaccines is toxic. Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine before the side effects are even known.
- nicce 5y ago
  You really don’t have time to wait 5 years for ”complete” results. People don’t understand basic math and threat modeling. How likely you are going to get covid and how serious it can be (for you and others)? How likely you get something serious from vaccine (only you) but most likely avoid serious covid (and spread it less to others)? Of course, forced vaccine might look bad from very selfish perspective, but benefits from bigger picture are obvious even with side effects.
- nojokes 5y ago
  And how are you going to find these rare events when you do not use the vaccine?
lightsighter 5y ago
> What again is the rush to vaccinate the lowest risk age group? Because they still contribute to chain of transmission to the most vulnerable members of society, likely in a disproportional way since younger members of society tend to socialize more. Fighting a virus is a collective action. In order to stop transmission to the vulnerable members, you need to cut edges along all paths through the graph. Furthermore, additional spread, even among healthy people with no side effects, increases the probability of mutations that lead to more fit variants capable of causing even more sickness and death.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  Vaccinated people can still get infected and transmit the virus to others, with or without mutations. The idea that vaccinated people are ‘safe to be around’ is an outdated fantasy.
  - lightsighter 5y ago
    I never said it stopped all transmission, but it will stop a large fraction of it. We're playing games of probability. Anybody that deals in absolutes is living in a fantasy world.
    - tinus_hn 5y ago
      > stop transmission > cut edges How are these not absolutes?
    - jamps 5y ago
      Latest studies don't seem to agree with your statement: "Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7 The theory of vaccinating people to protect others is taking another hit. It looks more that we should focus on proposing the vaccine to the people at risk (clearly identified, >65 years old, or multiple co-morbidity) for their own survival
- peteradio 5y ago
  Do you have any studies documenting incidence of child to adult transmission?

silicon2401 5y ago

this is exactly why the dogmatic culture around vaccines is toxic. Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine before the side effects are even known.

nicce 5y ago
You really don’t have time to wait 5 years for ”complete” results. People don’t understand basic math and threat modeling. How likely you are going to get covid and how serious it can be (for you and others)? How likely you get something serious from vaccine (only you) but most likely avoid serious covid (and spread it less to others)? Of course, forced vaccine might look bad from very selfish perspective, but benefits from bigger picture are obvious even with side effects.
nojokes 5y ago
And how are you going to find these rare events when you do not use the vaccine?

lightsighter 5y ago

> What again is the rush to vaccinate the lowest risk age group? Because they still contribute to chain of transmission to the most vulnerable members of society, likely in a disproportional way since younger members of society tend to socialize more. Fighting a virus is a collective action. In order to stop transmission to the vulnerable members, you need to cut edges along all paths through the graph. Furthermore, additional spread, even among healthy people with no side effects, increases the probability of mutations that lead to more fit variants capable of causing even more sickness and death.

tinus_hn 5y ago
Vaccinated people can still get infected and transmit the virus to others, with or without mutations. The idea that vaccinated people are ‘safe to be around’ is an outdated fantasy.
- lightsighter 5y ago
  I never said it stopped all transmission, but it will stop a large fraction of it. We're playing games of probability. Anybody that deals in absolutes is living in a fantasy world.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    > stop transmission > cut edges How are these not absolutes?
  - jamps 5y ago
    Latest studies don't seem to agree with your statement: "Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7 The theory of vaccinating people to protect others is taking another hit. It looks more that we should focus on proposing the vaccine to the people at risk (clearly identified, >65 years old, or multiple co-morbidity) for their own survival
peteradio 5y ago
Do you have any studies documenting incidence of child to adult transmission?