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Do you honestly think that iPhone customers will be more satisfied with iPhones if iPhones are required to support third-party app stores and/or sideloading? I

Do you honestly think that iPhone customers will be more satisfied with iPhones if iPhones are required to support third-party app stores and/or sideloading? I find it impossible to believe that this could make customers happier. It is almost certainly going to result in more malware and user tracking, more bugs, more fragmented processes for finding and paying for apps, more user-hostile in-app purchase and subscription behavior, etc.

smoldesu 5y ago
I think more people would be more satisfied with their iPhone if Apple introduced a form of "Enter your Pin number to install $APP_NAME from $APP_REPOSITORY" system. That way, users would know outright that they're not getting software directly from Apple, and are forced to authenticate in order to confirm they want it. Then both sides win: you get to have your perfectly secure iPhone, and I get to have a device that actually does the things I want it to.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  That is still very likely to result in a worse experience for iPhone users for all the reasons I listed. I don’t think Apple’s concern is whether they can use their UI to shift blame to its customers when they sideload software that makes them unhappy—they just want their customers to be happy.
  - cronix 5y ago
    Why are you allowed to install things on your mac from non-apple sources if this is the case? I didn't have to go to an Apple Mac App store to download VSC from MS. I did have to click a prompt informing me that this program was downloaded from the internet and could potentially be harmful to your device type message, do you really want to install it, though. Has the mac landscape gone to hell with worse experiences, more malware or "software that makes them unhappy" because people can and do install software from non official Apple sources? It's literally the same company. Why does one being a "phone" or "mobile device" change things?
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      Mac certainly has more malware than iPhones, yes!
      - zakki 5y ago
        Does Mac OS customers experience worse than iPhone's customers?
    - bzzzt 5y ago
      For starters: because the majority of humans on earth do not own or understand a PC or Mac or security in general and are only using a mobile phone. They just click on 'agree' and get on with their lives not understanding they just permitted a rogue app to plunder their savings account.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Social engineering will always be a concern. This was as much of a problem as it was 40 years ago, and Apple adding dialogues in the way of it doesn't stop anything, it just changes the path attackers take to reach ultimately the same goal. If you don't want to understand security, fine: just don't be surprised when your personal information ends up in the hands of the wrong people. Everyone has a duty to understand their own threat model, and any reasonably comprehensive model would include Apple as an ultimately untrusted party. It's a zero-sum game, so they may as well just make it easier for me to use their devices when I'm forced to.
ARandumGuy 5y ago
If the iPhone is required to support apps outside of the App Store, that will probably result in a worse user experience for a lot of people. Despite that, I feel that it would be a net benefit to require non-App Store apps on the iPhone. The overall stifling of competition on a locked down ecosystem is worse then the inconvenience of installing a shady app. And it probably wouldn't be that bad anyway. A vast majority of people will still use the official App Store, like they do on Android. But a more open ecosystem will keep Apple honest, and give more power to the end user.
pg_bot 5y ago
Yes. For the simple reason that I own both a Mac and an iPhone. These devices are extremely similar in their capabilities, except I can download software directly on one, and the other is a captive market. There is a reason why the Mac App Store is a wasteland. Apple provides almost no value when it comes to distributing third party software. They only dominate on the iPhone because they are the only game in town.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  The fact that you own both a Mac and an iPhone supports my claim, assuming that in both case you were relatively informed of all the alternatives and were free to choose.
  - pg_bot 5y ago
    I own about 4-5 computers and 3 phones. One of those computers is a Mac and one of the phones is an iPhone. The only claim I made was that I would be more satisfied if the iPhone could support third party stores or sideloading. I will continue to stand by that claim.
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      I don't dispute your prediction that you would be more satisfied if your iPhone could support third party stores or sideloading. My prediction is about customer satisfaction in aggregate.
      - pg_bot 5y ago
        I don't understand your logic here. Adding additional third party stores wouldn't affect the availability of Apps in the App Store if Apple is truly providing value to customers. If third party stores or sideloading is not valuable, most people would continue to use the App Store exclusively. Almost all developers would continue listing their App on the App Store as well. If third party app stores and sideloading do provide value, then consumers will use those methods to get their apps. I don't get why anyone would be less happy to get software directly from a vendor. If I am dissatisfied there is always an intermediary (bank / credit card company) to intervene on my behalf if an actor is behaving badly. Can you elaborate on why you believe people would be unhappy if this were the case? I truly don't understand the position.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Users will switch if they can get their apps somewhere cheaper. Most iPhone users are not Apple fan boys.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Yes, my prediction is that they will do this and that they will then be less satisfied with their iPhone.

smoldesu 5y ago

I think more people would be more satisfied with their iPhone if Apple introduced a form of "Enter your Pin number to install $APP_NAME from $APP_REPOSITORY" system. That way, users would know outright that they're not getting software directly from Apple, and are forced to authenticate in order to confirm they want it. Then both sides win: you get to have your perfectly secure iPhone, and I get to have a device that actually does the things I want it to.

tshaddox 5y ago
That is still very likely to result in a worse experience for iPhone users for all the reasons I listed. I don’t think Apple’s concern is whether they can use their UI to shift blame to its customers when they sideload software that makes them unhappy—they just want their customers to be happy.
- cronix 5y ago
  Why are you allowed to install things on your mac from non-apple sources if this is the case? I didn't have to go to an Apple Mac App store to download VSC from MS. I did have to click a prompt informing me that this program was downloaded from the internet and could potentially be harmful to your device type message, do you really want to install it, though. Has the mac landscape gone to hell with worse experiences, more malware or "software that makes them unhappy" because people can and do install software from non official Apple sources? It's literally the same company. Why does one being a "phone" or "mobile device" change things?
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    Mac certainly has more malware than iPhones, yes!
    - zakki 5y ago
      Does Mac OS customers experience worse than iPhone's customers?
  - bzzzt 5y ago
    For starters: because the majority of humans on earth do not own or understand a PC or Mac or security in general and are only using a mobile phone. They just click on 'agree' and get on with their lives not understanding they just permitted a rogue app to plunder their savings account.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Social engineering will always be a concern. This was as much of a problem as it was 40 years ago, and Apple adding dialogues in the way of it doesn't stop anything, it just changes the path attackers take to reach ultimately the same goal. If you don't want to understand security, fine: just don't be surprised when your personal information ends up in the hands of the wrong people. Everyone has a duty to understand their own threat model, and any reasonably comprehensive model would include Apple as an ultimately untrusted party. It's a zero-sum game, so they may as well just make it easier for me to use their devices when I'm forced to.

ARandumGuy 5y ago

If the iPhone is required to support apps outside of the App Store, that will probably result in a worse user experience for a lot of people. Despite that, I feel that it would be a net benefit to require non-App Store apps on the iPhone. The overall stifling of competition on a locked down ecosystem is worse then the inconvenience of installing a shady app. And it probably wouldn't be that bad anyway. A vast majority of people will still use the official App Store, like they do on Android. But a more open ecosystem will keep Apple honest, and give more power to the end user.

pg_bot 5y ago

Yes. For the simple reason that I own both a Mac and an iPhone. These devices are extremely similar in their capabilities, except I can download software directly on one, and the other is a captive market. There is a reason why the Mac App Store is a wasteland. Apple provides almost no value when it comes to distributing third party software. They only dominate on the iPhone because they are the only game in town.

tshaddox 5y ago
The fact that you own both a Mac and an iPhone supports my claim, assuming that in both case you were relatively informed of all the alternatives and were free to choose.
- pg_bot 5y ago
  I own about 4-5 computers and 3 phones. One of those computers is a Mac and one of the phones is an iPhone. The only claim I made was that I would be more satisfied if the iPhone could support third party stores or sideloading. I will continue to stand by that claim.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    I don't dispute your prediction that you would be more satisfied if your iPhone could support third party stores or sideloading. My prediction is about customer satisfaction in aggregate.
    - pg_bot 5y ago
      I don't understand your logic here. Adding additional third party stores wouldn't affect the availability of Apps in the App Store if Apple is truly providing value to customers. If third party stores or sideloading is not valuable, most people would continue to use the App Store exclusively. Almost all developers would continue listing their App on the App Store as well. If third party app stores and sideloading do provide value, then consumers will use those methods to get their apps. I don't get why anyone would be less happy to get software directly from a vendor. If I am dissatisfied there is always an intermediary (bank / credit card company) to intervene on my behalf if an actor is behaving badly. Can you elaborate on why you believe people would be unhappy if this were the case? I truly don't understand the position.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Users will switch if they can get their apps somewhere cheaper. Most iPhone users are not Apple fan boys.

tshaddox 5y ago
Yes, my prediction is that they will do this and that they will then be less satisfied with their iPhone.