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0.02% BAC per drink is wildly underestimated. many people will reach the driving limit of .08 after 2 drinks there’s a chart on this dmv page that shows you ha

0.02% BAC per drink is wildly underestimated. many people will reach the driving limit of .08 after 2 drinks there’s a chart on this dmv page that shows you have to be 240lbs to get .02 per drink https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/alcohol-and-drugs/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han...

giantg2 5y ago
Considering the rate of obesity, .02 per drink might be more common than one would think. That said, people should calculate it for themselves than use rules of thumb. I'm not convinced of the values in that table. I think they are being very conservative. My calculations using a BAC formula are different. For example, the .02 per drink seems to work for men weighing 215lbs.
- vkou 5y ago
  Do note: There's a lot of beer these days that's >5% alcohol, so a single beer often has more than one drink.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Yeah. Standard drinks are 1.5oz 80 proof, 12 oz 5% beer, or 5oz 12% wine.
    - brewdad 5y ago
      I go by a "rule of 60". A pint of 7% beer (very common with IPAs) would worth 7*16 = 112 points or almost 2 "drinks".
      - arthurcolle 5y ago
        How drunk were you when you came up with this? Clever
  - 0des 5y ago
    I had to check wikipedia and I am very much dismay to report that it appears they're discontinuing what some may consider to be the topmost of high gravity malt liquor, 211 Steel Reserve Triple Export (a segment of 211 Steel Reserve) RIP, you were taken from us too soon.
    - vkou 5y ago
      Old Rasputin Imperial Stout is still 11.9% ABV, if you are looking for hangover-fuel-in-a-bottle.
      - arthurcolle 5y ago
        That stuff is the real rat poison squared
      - alasdair_ 5y ago
        >Old Rasputin Imperial Stout is still 11.9% ABV, if you are looking for hangover-fuel-in-a-bottle. It's actually "only" 9%. (https://northcoastbrewing.com/beers/year-round-beers/old-rasputin-russian-imperial-stout/ https://northcoastbrewing.com/beers/year-round-beers/old-ras...) If you want a high-alcohol beer, consider a draught of Tactical Nuclear Penguin at a bracing 32% ABV (https://blog.brewdog.com/usa/blog/the-worlds-strongest-beer-tactical-nuclear-penguin https://blog.brewdog.com/usa/blog/the-worlds-strongest-beer-...)
        0des 5y ago
        bracing indeed! ok, adding this one to the list!
  - hilbert42 5y ago
    I have a strong objection to how high the alcohol content of many drinks is these days. Higher levels of alcohol can disguise bad or cheap processes. For example, these days red wines are often 14% - 14.5% alcohol or even higher and these percentages are pretty universal irrespective of which region of the world they come from. In decades past the equivalent wines would have been only 12% - 12.5%. (Remember, top first growth Bordeaux reds were traditionally 12.5% - it's the extra ageing that makes them great (at least in part) - not the extra alcohol.) The spirity character of additional alcohol adds extra zest to a poorly made wine. For instance, a few extra percent alcohol can make up for the much shorter maturity (cask) times that makers allow for wines these days. If anything, we need research to make wines, beers etc. of comparable or even better quality but with even lower alcohol, but there seems precious little interest in that. In essence, money again trumps health considerations. No, I'm not a wowser, I've an empty one liter bottle of 56% proof cask-stength single malt Bowmore scotch sitting on a shelf to remind me how nice it was. But that's not the point!
shortstuffsushi 5y ago
Random, I guess, but what does "fewer than 5 in 100 will exceed these values" mean? Does that mean 5/100 would be more drunk than what's listed there? Less drunk? "Exceed" the weight on the high end?
- p_j_w 5y ago
  Yes, 5/100 (actually, less than 5/100) would be more drunk. It's their way of stating their confidence interval.
ksdale 5y ago
Whenever I've looked at the BAC chart and compared it to my drinking, I discover that I would be incredibly uncomfortable driving while anywhere near .08 BAC, so I always assumed it was underestimated somehow... or else people are allowed to be way drunker and still drive than seems safe.
- abduhl 5y ago
  That’s interesting. I just looked at this chart and would be incredibly comfortable driving after drinking the maximum number of drinks on the chart (5) which would place me at 0.15 minus say .04 (over 3 hours, minus 0.01 per 45 minutes) or 0.11. Perhaps you’re just not a big drinker?
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    > I just looked at this chart and would be incredibly comfortable driving after drinking the maximum number of drinks on the chart (5) 0.11 is very definitely impaired, whether or not you “feel” anything. False feelings of sobriety are common in heavy drinkers (and users of some drugs with similar mechanisms of action) Please don’t drink anywhere near this amount and drive, no matter how sober you might feel.
    - abduhl 5y ago
      I'd just point out that this five drinks in three hours is one drink more than the rule of thumb often given out of two drinks in the first hour then one drink per hour afterwards. It's the rare 200 lb person that has 5 beers during a football/baseball/soccer game and is "very definitely impaired." Sobriety limits are justifiably geared towards the lower end to accommodate light-weight drinkers. This is even pointed out on the chart by noting that this is a 95th percentile drunkenness/BAC (i.e., 95% of people are LESS drunk/have a lower BAC than shown or, alternatively, 5% of people are MORE drunk than shown).
      - AnthonBerg 5y ago
        Don’t drink and drive. Please.
slaymaker1907 5y ago
It seems like this isn't the most precise chart which I think is likely in order to avoid underestimating intoxication. https://www.businessinsider.com/drinks-before-driving-if-bac-is-05-2013-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/drinks-before-driving-if-bac... has me at 0.13 after 5 drinks versus 0.21 according to the CA chart. This is an astromical difference that I implies at least one source is lying via statistics.
- jffry 5y ago
  The California chart states "Fewer than 5 persons out of 100 will exceed these values". The article you linked contains charts from the Texas ABC which do not indicate what percentile they measure. The original source [1] is a dead link but it's still available in the Wayback machine [2], where the PDF states "Note: The figures are averages and may vary based on the amount of food in your stomach." The difference in these charts in no way "implies that at least one source is lying via statistics", just that you are attempting to compare different statistics dealing with something that's going to be quite variable from individual to individual. IMO, the 95th percentile is a better approach, if your intention is to give people a rough intuition for how much might be too much. [1] http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publications/brochures/BACCharts.pdf http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publications/brochures/BACCharts... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20190903232034/http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publications/brochures/BACCharts.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20190903232034/http://www.tabc.s...
  - belval 5y ago
    I get your point but that chart is overestimating so much that it misses the point entirely, anyone who actually checked their % after a few drinks would notice it immediately. After having a "typical" longneck-format beer I'd be at 0.04 and already in the "unsafe to drive" threshold. This is not bragging by the way, don't drink and drive, but we should have a discussion over values that actually make sense.
patja 5y ago
Don't neglect the .01% you get back after 40 minutes. Otherwise it is as if you are considering a scenario where 2 to 3 drinks are being downed in quick succession.
- oarabbus_ 5y ago
  Extreme alcoholics such as the driver in the article often down more than 2-3 drinks in quick succession.
saghm 5y ago
.08 after two drinks would be .04 per drink, so that's still 25 drinks. I don't drink personally (and never have in the past), but that still seems quite high to me!

giantg2 5y ago

Considering the rate of obesity, .02 per drink might be more common than one would think. That said, people should calculate it for themselves than use rules of thumb. I'm not convinced of the values in that table. I think they are being very conservative. My calculations using a BAC formula are different. For example, the .02 per drink seems to work for men weighing 215lbs.

vkou 5y ago
Do note: There's a lot of beer these days that's >5% alcohol, so a single beer often has more than one drink.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Yeah. Standard drinks are 1.5oz 80 proof, 12 oz 5% beer, or 5oz 12% wine.
  - brewdad 5y ago
    I go by a "rule of 60". A pint of 7% beer (very common with IPAs) would worth 7*16 = 112 points or almost 2 "drinks".
    - arthurcolle 5y ago
      How drunk were you when you came up with this? Clever
- 0des 5y ago
  I had to check wikipedia and I am very much dismay to report that it appears they're discontinuing what some may consider to be the topmost of high gravity malt liquor, 211 Steel Reserve Triple Export (a segment of 211 Steel Reserve) RIP, you were taken from us too soon.
  - vkou 5y ago
    Old Rasputin Imperial Stout is still 11.9% ABV, if you are looking for hangover-fuel-in-a-bottle.
    - arthurcolle 5y ago
      That stuff is the real rat poison squared
    - alasdair_ 5y ago
      >Old Rasputin Imperial Stout is still 11.9% ABV, if you are looking for hangover-fuel-in-a-bottle. It's actually "only" 9%. (https://northcoastbrewing.com/beers/year-round-beers/old-rasputin-russian-imperial-stout/ https://northcoastbrewing.com/beers/year-round-beers/old-ras...) If you want a high-alcohol beer, consider a draught of Tactical Nuclear Penguin at a bracing 32% ABV (https://blog.brewdog.com/usa/blog/the-worlds-strongest-beer-tactical-nuclear-penguin https://blog.brewdog.com/usa/blog/the-worlds-strongest-beer-...)
      - 0des 5y ago
        bracing indeed! ok, adding this one to the list!
- hilbert42 5y ago
  I have a strong objection to how high the alcohol content of many drinks is these days. Higher levels of alcohol can disguise bad or cheap processes. For example, these days red wines are often 14% - 14.5% alcohol or even higher and these percentages are pretty universal irrespective of which region of the world they come from. In decades past the equivalent wines would have been only 12% - 12.5%. (Remember, top first growth Bordeaux reds were traditionally 12.5% - it's the extra ageing that makes them great (at least in part) - not the extra alcohol.) The spirity character of additional alcohol adds extra zest to a poorly made wine. For instance, a few extra percent alcohol can make up for the much shorter maturity (cask) times that makers allow for wines these days. If anything, we need research to make wines, beers etc. of comparable or even better quality but with even lower alcohol, but there seems precious little interest in that. In essence, money again trumps health considerations. No, I'm not a wowser, I've an empty one liter bottle of 56% proof cask-stength single malt Bowmore scotch sitting on a shelf to remind me how nice it was. But that's not the point!

shortstuffsushi 5y ago

Random, I guess, but what does "fewer than 5 in 100 will exceed these values" mean? Does that mean 5/100 would be more drunk than what's listed there? Less drunk? "Exceed" the weight on the high end?

p_j_w 5y ago
Yes, 5/100 (actually, less than 5/100) would be more drunk. It's their way of stating their confidence interval.

ksdale 5y ago

Whenever I've looked at the BAC chart and compared it to my drinking, I discover that I would be incredibly uncomfortable driving while anywhere near .08 BAC, so I always assumed it was underestimated somehow... or else people are allowed to be way drunker and still drive than seems safe.

abduhl 5y ago
That’s interesting. I just looked at this chart and would be incredibly comfortable driving after drinking the maximum number of drinks on the chart (5) which would place me at 0.15 minus say .04 (over 3 hours, minus 0.01 per 45 minutes) or 0.11. Perhaps you’re just not a big drinker?
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > I just looked at this chart and would be incredibly comfortable driving after drinking the maximum number of drinks on the chart (5) 0.11 is very definitely impaired, whether or not you “feel” anything. False feelings of sobriety are common in heavy drinkers (and users of some drugs with similar mechanisms of action) Please don’t drink anywhere near this amount and drive, no matter how sober you might feel.
  - abduhl 5y ago
    I'd just point out that this five drinks in three hours is one drink more than the rule of thumb often given out of two drinks in the first hour then one drink per hour afterwards. It's the rare 200 lb person that has 5 beers during a football/baseball/soccer game and is "very definitely impaired." Sobriety limits are justifiably geared towards the lower end to accommodate light-weight drinkers. This is even pointed out on the chart by noting that this is a 95th percentile drunkenness/BAC (i.e., 95% of people are LESS drunk/have a lower BAC than shown or, alternatively, 5% of people are MORE drunk than shown).
    - AnthonBerg 5y ago
      Don’t drink and drive. Please.

slaymaker1907 5y ago

It seems like this isn't the most precise chart which I think is likely in order to avoid underestimating intoxication. https://www.businessinsider.com/drinks-before-driving-if-bac-is-05-2013-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/drinks-before-driving-if-bac... has me at 0.13 after 5 drinks versus 0.21 according to the CA chart. This is an astromical difference that I implies at least one source is lying via statistics.

jffry 5y ago
The California chart states "Fewer than 5 persons out of 100 will exceed these values". The article you linked contains charts from the Texas ABC which do not indicate what percentile they measure. The original source [1] is a dead link but it's still available in the Wayback machine [2], where the PDF states "Note: The figures are averages and may vary based on the amount of food in your stomach." The difference in these charts in no way "implies that at least one source is lying via statistics", just that you are attempting to compare different statistics dealing with something that's going to be quite variable from individual to individual. IMO, the 95th percentile is a better approach, if your intention is to give people a rough intuition for how much might be too much. [1] http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publications/brochures/BACCharts.pdf http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publications/brochures/BACCharts... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20190903232034/http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publications/brochures/BACCharts.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20190903232034/http://www.tabc.s...
- belval 5y ago
  I get your point but that chart is overestimating so much that it misses the point entirely, anyone who actually checked their % after a few drinks would notice it immediately. After having a "typical" longneck-format beer I'd be at 0.04 and already in the "unsafe to drive" threshold. This is not bragging by the way, don't drink and drive, but we should have a discussion over values that actually make sense.

patja 5y ago

Don't neglect the .01% you get back after 40 minutes. Otherwise it is as if you are considering a scenario where 2 to 3 drinks are being downed in quick succession.

oarabbus_ 5y ago
Extreme alcoholics such as the driver in the article often down more than 2-3 drinks in quick succession.

saghm 5y ago

.08 after two drinks would be .04 per drink, so that's still 25 drinks. I don't drink personally (and never have in the past), but that still seems quite high to me!