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I think a big problem with this is that you need to be on the same page as your boss. You might think 4 weeks is fine, they might think 2. But since some CXO an

I think a big problem with this is that you need to be on the same page as your boss. You might think 4 weeks is fine, they might think 2. But since some CXO announced unlimited PTO they're not going to tell you that they think you're taking too much, they're just going to channel that into your performance reviews and general feedback. In order for unlimited PTO to work you need an incredibly high trust environment which is very hard to create.

corndoge 5y ago
If they think 2 is fine imma refer them to the unlimited PTO policy! :)
- Traster 5y ago
  Well sure, you can do that, but that isn't going to change their impression of you when they're doing your annual review. And it won't be "You took too much holiday", it'll be "I don't think you're bought in to the team" or "I'm not sure you've really delivered at the same level as other team members this year". It might not be fair, but I could definitely see that happening for some managers.
  - gnu8 5y ago
    That’s where you have to push back very rigidly. In an environment with unlimited PTO, that is a completely invalid criticism and can’t be accepted.
  - corndoge 5y ago
    Those concerns don't really apply to me because 1. My manager in particular would never do that, but even if they did: 2. I know how much I contribute relative to my team. If my manager told me I was underperforming - for any stated reason, but especially if I suspected it was for taking "too much" PTO - I'd almost certainly find a new team, because that just ain't so. To elaborate on 2 a little bit, it's worth pointing out that you're definitely more vulnerable to shitty management tactics like that if you aren't sure of your own market value. If your main point is that "unlimited PTO" can be a weapon in the hands of a bad manager, I concede that. But my counterpoint to "unlimited PTO is bad" is that, within the bubble world of tech, we as employees have so much power to dictate our working conditions there's very little reason to put up with any such bullshit in the first place. And most employers are aware of this right now.[0] [0] https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2021-07-13/employers-bow-down-to-tech-workers-in-hottest-job-market-seen-since-the-dot-com-era https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2021-07-...
    - Traster 5y ago
      That's why I was saying it only works for high trust environments, and it's not just about you. Is your manager confident their manager and HR department really back them? Do other people in your team see you take more and trust that you're being reasonable. It all adds up to require a lot of high trust relationships where there are lot of downsides if it falls apart.

corndoge 5y ago

If they think 2 is fine imma refer them to the unlimited PTO policy! :)

Traster 5y ago
Well sure, you can do that, but that isn't going to change their impression of you when they're doing your annual review. And it won't be "You took too much holiday", it'll be "I don't think you're bought in to the team" or "I'm not sure you've really delivered at the same level as other team members this year". It might not be fair, but I could definitely see that happening for some managers.
- gnu8 5y ago
  That’s where you have to push back very rigidly. In an environment with unlimited PTO, that is a completely invalid criticism and can’t be accepted.
- corndoge 5y ago
  Those concerns don't really apply to me because 1. My manager in particular would never do that, but even if they did: 2. I know how much I contribute relative to my team. If my manager told me I was underperforming - for any stated reason, but especially if I suspected it was for taking "too much" PTO - I'd almost certainly find a new team, because that just ain't so. To elaborate on 2 a little bit, it's worth pointing out that you're definitely more vulnerable to shitty management tactics like that if you aren't sure of your own market value. If your main point is that "unlimited PTO" can be a weapon in the hands of a bad manager, I concede that. But my counterpoint to "unlimited PTO is bad" is that, within the bubble world of tech, we as employees have so much power to dictate our working conditions there's very little reason to put up with any such bullshit in the first place. And most employers are aware of this right now.[0] [0] https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2021-07-13/employers-bow-down-to-tech-workers-in-hottest-job-market-seen-since-the-dot-com-era https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2021-07-...
  - Traster 5y ago
    That's why I was saying it only works for high trust environments, and it's not just about you. Is your manager confident their manager and HR department really back them? Do other people in your team see you take more and trust that you're being reasonable. It all adds up to require a lot of high trust relationships where there are lot of downsides if it falls apart.