6 ms·

What's wrong with winning? Why not let people keep winning?

by streblo 5y ago

eli 5y ago
What's wrong with paying taxes when you're winning?
- streblo 5y ago
  Nothing. You still pay taxes on withdrawals from a traditional IRA.
  - mactrey 5y ago
    So why not just invest in Bitcoin outside of your tax-advantaged accounts?
    - streblo 5y ago
      Why not invest inside of your tax-advantaged accounts as well?
wpietri 5y ago
Because Bitcoin is a negative-sum enterprise. For the average speculator, total number of dollars out will be less than the total number of dollars in. That's exactly the opposite of what we want people to be doing with tax-advantaged retirement accounts.
UncleMeat 5y ago
The purpose of tax advantaged retirement accounts is to reduce the number of destitute people in retirement. It achieves this goal by providing a tax incentive on regular investment for people who would not otherwise invest. If you won the lottery on crypto then you aren't going to be destitute in retirement. Pay the capital gains and enjoy your wealth. Similarly, if you are a high earner and can afford to take advantage of things like the megabackdoor then you aren't going to be destitute in retirement. Pay the capital gains and enjoy your wealth.
- streblo 5y ago
  > The purpose of tax advantaged retirement accounts is to reduce the number of destitute people in retirement. It achieves this goal by providing a tax incentive on regular investment for people who would not otherwise invest. The purpose of tax advantage retirement accounts when originally introduced by ERISA was to give employees of private companies a safety net in cases where their pension defaulted or when a pension wasn't offered in the first place. There's really no mention of it being specifically for people who are destitute or would not otherwise invest. Traditional IRAs are available for everyone, even high earners, no gatekeeping. > Pay the capital gains and enjoy your wealth. Traditional IRAs are taxed on withdrawal and function much like other investments.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    If there is no benefit to the IRA, then why are you upset? Tax breaks exist to promote prosocial behavior. Getting people who are struggling to be able to afford to save for retirement is good for society. Giving people who made it big with a lucky gamble a benefit is just good for that individual.
    - streblo 5y ago
      In this case it's good for the individual without being detrimental to society.
      - UncleMeat 5y ago
        Why have taxes at all, if this is your argument?

What's wrong with winning? Why not let people keep winning?

eli 5y ago

What's wrong with paying taxes when you're winning?

streblo 5y ago
Nothing. You still pay taxes on withdrawals from a traditional IRA.
- mactrey 5y ago
  So why not just invest in Bitcoin outside of your tax-advantaged accounts?
  - streblo 5y ago
    Why not invest inside of your tax-advantaged accounts as well?

wpietri 5y ago

Because Bitcoin is a negative-sum enterprise. For the average speculator, total number of dollars out will be less than the total number of dollars in. That's exactly the opposite of what we want people to be doing with tax-advantaged retirement accounts.

UncleMeat 5y ago

The purpose of tax advantaged retirement accounts is to reduce the number of destitute people in retirement. It achieves this goal by providing a tax incentive on regular investment for people who would not otherwise invest. If you won the lottery on crypto then you aren't going to be destitute in retirement. Pay the capital gains and enjoy your wealth. Similarly, if you are a high earner and can afford to take advantage of things like the megabackdoor then you aren't going to be destitute in retirement. Pay the capital gains and enjoy your wealth.

streblo 5y ago
> The purpose of tax advantaged retirement accounts is to reduce the number of destitute people in retirement. It achieves this goal by providing a tax incentive on regular investment for people who would not otherwise invest. The purpose of tax advantage retirement accounts when originally introduced by ERISA was to give employees of private companies a safety net in cases where their pension defaulted or when a pension wasn't offered in the first place. There's really no mention of it being specifically for people who are destitute or would not otherwise invest. Traditional IRAs are available for everyone, even high earners, no gatekeeping. > Pay the capital gains and enjoy your wealth. Traditional IRAs are taxed on withdrawal and function much like other investments.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  If there is no benefit to the IRA, then why are you upset? Tax breaks exist to promote prosocial behavior. Getting people who are struggling to be able to afford to save for retirement is good for society. Giving people who made it big with a lucky gamble a benefit is just good for that individual.
  - streblo 5y ago
    In this case it's good for the individual without being detrimental to society.
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      Why have taxes at all, if this is your argument?