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semiconductors also employ people in surrounding industries... like software developers, microwave salespeople, (these days) mechanics, specialized clean room e

by avh02 5y ago

semiconductors also employ people in surrounding industries... like software developers, microwave salespeople, (these days) mechanics, specialized clean room equipment procurement. You've moved the goalpost, but here we go, i'll bite: Intel revenue 2020: 77.87 billion [1] Now, granted, just because intel has a plant in the UK doesn't move all that revenue over to the UK all of a sudden, they have 8 fab plants [3], so each fab plant comes in at just under 10 billion USD (assuming they're all equal (and equal contributors to revenue), which i don't know and wouldn't expect to be), some countries have more than one fab plant too. but, we'll also filter to the film industry in the UK, we'll even take the best year, giving us 4 billion GBP in 2004 [2] (keep in mind GBP and USD here, and VEEEERY rough mathematics and assumptions) So even on the best day - your ENTIRE (maybe even both, i can't even be bothered to calculate) cited industry/industries in the UK is smaller in revenue than one fab plant that you missed out on. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel [2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/297182/film-industry-revenues-in-the-uk/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/297182/film-industry-rev... [3]: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000015142/programs.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000... edit: minor fixes

ghostwriter 5y ago
> semiconductors also employ people in surrounding industries... like software developers, microwave salespeople, (these days) mechanics, specialized clean room equipment procurement. Entertainment employs these from engineering side too, in addition to the industries that specialise solely on art, fashion, and event management - these entities are not included in your comparison of total revenues. For instance, nobody buys tourist tickets and books hotels to go to see a new chip from an Intel factory. Thousands of people from abroad do it to visit filming- and entertainment- related events such as red carpets and conventions. These are also the events where celebrities spend money and donate to popular causes.
- avh02 5y ago
  i never said entertainment does not contribute to a surrounding industry, i was only pointing out that both sides have it. You are simply pointing out to an instance where the other one does not have an equivalent. Here, i'll do the same (with the same hand waviness): Your list states people in the "industries that specialise solely on art, fashion, and event management" - Intel's supply chain supports thousands of logistics jobs (pilots, truck/HGV drivers, mining raw materials) - the film industry does not have this at scale. My point is, you have moved from "intel doesn't want to be here - but these two industries do! so intel must be wrong" to saying that even though the net loss to the UK is larger in terms of the pure industry, that their surrounding industries bring in money (but apparently intel's doesn't compare to film industry awards ceremonies, which are HUGE MONEY) This is not the argument I wanted to make, but here: the chip industry enables the video game industry, which on it's own is larger than the movie industry. If you want to compare surrounding industries, there, I'm Done. [1] [1]: https://www.statista.com/topics/1763/gaming-in-the-united-kingdom/ https://www.statista.com/topics/1763/gaming-in-the-united-ki...
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    > i never said entertainment does not contribute to a surrounding industry, i was only pointing out that both sides have it. You are simply pointing out to an instance where the other one does not have an equivalent. exactly, even if you don't like it. I'm pointing at the opportunities that are being created regardless of any single entity's presence in the region, that you are not including into your original comparison. Other big profitable industries find the UK appealing for large long-term investments. You argue that there's "value lost in this limited context", I argue that the context is wrong and there's a bigger picture where Intel's current hesitation to establish a plant in the UK due to Brexit ramifications is irrelevant. It's irrelevant because Intel is a single player that will not necessarily hold its leadership in the next 10 years, whereas big industries such as Entertainment and Construction have already chosen and commited to their choice by making transactions and building the stuff in the UK, that is many independent companies that form those industries have made this decision and Brexit was not a decisive factor to them. And if it wasn't a decisive factor, then there should be other more important factors that make the UK more appealing to each and every one of them. > > This is not the argument I wanted to make, but here: the chip industry enables the video game industry, which on it's own is larger than the movie industry. If you want to compare surrounding industries, there, I'm Done. Intel is not the entire chip industry, thankfully.

by avh02 5y ago

ghostwriter 5y ago

> semiconductors also employ people in surrounding industries... like software developers, microwave salespeople, (these days) mechanics, specialized clean room equipment procurement. Entertainment employs these from engineering side too, in addition to the industries that specialise solely on art, fashion, and event management - these entities are not included in your comparison of total revenues. For instance, nobody buys tourist tickets and books hotels to go to see a new chip from an Intel factory. Thousands of people from abroad do it to visit filming- and entertainment- related events such as red carpets and conventions. These are also the events where celebrities spend money and donate to popular causes.

avh02 5y ago
i never said entertainment does not contribute to a surrounding industry, i was only pointing out that both sides have it. You are simply pointing out to an instance where the other one does not have an equivalent. Here, i'll do the same (with the same hand waviness): Your list states people in the "industries that specialise solely on art, fashion, and event management" - Intel's supply chain supports thousands of logistics jobs (pilots, truck/HGV drivers, mining raw materials) - the film industry does not have this at scale. My point is, you have moved from "intel doesn't want to be here - but these two industries do! so intel must be wrong" to saying that even though the net loss to the UK is larger in terms of the pure industry, that their surrounding industries bring in money (but apparently intel's doesn't compare to film industry awards ceremonies, which are HUGE MONEY) This is not the argument I wanted to make, but here: the chip industry enables the video game industry, which on it's own is larger than the movie industry. If you want to compare surrounding industries, there, I'm Done. [1] [1]: https://www.statista.com/topics/1763/gaming-in-the-united-kingdom/ https://www.statista.com/topics/1763/gaming-in-the-united-ki...
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  > i never said entertainment does not contribute to a surrounding industry, i was only pointing out that both sides have it. You are simply pointing out to an instance where the other one does not have an equivalent. exactly, even if you don't like it. I'm pointing at the opportunities that are being created regardless of any single entity's presence in the region, that you are not including into your original comparison. Other big profitable industries find the UK appealing for large long-term investments. You argue that there's "value lost in this limited context", I argue that the context is wrong and there's a bigger picture where Intel's current hesitation to establish a plant in the UK due to Brexit ramifications is irrelevant. It's irrelevant because Intel is a single player that will not necessarily hold its leadership in the next 10 years, whereas big industries such as Entertainment and Construction have already chosen and commited to their choice by making transactions and building the stuff in the UK, that is many independent companies that form those industries have made this decision and Brexit was not a decisive factor to them. And if it wasn't a decisive factor, then there should be other more important factors that make the UK more appealing to each and every one of them. > > This is not the argument I wanted to make, but here: the chip industry enables the video game industry, which on it's own is larger than the movie industry. If you want to compare surrounding industries, there, I'm Done. Intel is not the entire chip industry, thankfully.