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I’m using Paddle for my MacOS app, Lunar (https://lunar.fyi https://lunar.fyi) and in my opinion they are serious enough about privacy. For example when you bu

by alin23 5y ago

I’m using Paddle for my MacOS app, Lunar (https://lunar.fyi https://lunar.fyi) and in my opinion they are serious enough about privacy. For example when you buy a license you are by default opted-out of marketing or update emails [0] And the upsell feature isn’t functional by default for everyone, you need to contact them to discuss a “moving upmarket” strategy. [1] [0] https://cln.sh/llVLV2 https://cln.sh/llVLV2 [1] https://cln.sh/6lqYc1 https://cln.sh/6lqYc1

drcongo 5y ago
I used Paddle once, many years ago, with a unique "+" address, and still get spam to that address to this day. These days I don't buy software if Paddle is the only option. I always thought the name Paddle was something to do with the flood of spam you can expect.
- alin23 5y ago
  I’d say that’s just a bad seller who would have spammed you no matter what payment processor you would have gone through. Until now, I’ve used Stripe, Paypal, Paddle and some local Romanian company and all of them provided me the email of the customer where it was available. It’s up to the seller to abide by the rules, the platform isn’t at fault here.
  - admax88qqq 5y ago
    The payment processor could have insulated your data. But with paddle it sounds like sharing your data with the vendor is one of their selling points
  - drcongo 5y ago
    Unrelated spam from thousands of "companies". > I’d say that’s just a bad seller who would have spammed you no matter what payment processor you would have gone through. Except, of course, it has NEVER happened with the thousands of apps I've bought through Apple's official stores. Not once.
    - alin23 5y ago
      Yes, you won’t see that happening when buying on Apple app store because they don’t share your email. I was mostly talking about avoiding Paddle as a payment processor, the app store isn’t a payment processor so we can’t really compare them. I’d still say the spam came from a seller sharing your address, or leaking it by mistake, not from how Paddle works. If your issue would be Paddle related and recurrent, I don’t think they would still be in the business as trust is very important when handling money and customer data and soon no one would choose them anymore.
      - enos_feedler 5y ago
        The fundamental issue here is that developers, at scale, cannot be trusted. You can trust specific ones to do the right thing but you can’t trust them all. Apple sees themselves as responsible for protecting all of their customers from this reality. Others call them “gatekeepers”. The example here is sharing an email address with developers. There are other examples like “no background processes”. Developers hate this becuase they see _themselves_ as trustworthy but the reality still stands: developers at scale cannot be trusted to do the right thing. Now let me add my opinion on this: Should we have a platform that allows consumers to make a single choice ie) choose Apple, and by proxy never needs to trust developers at scale? Absolutely. Many people, especially developers, would rather trade some developer flexibility (multiple payment processors) and push some responsibility onto Apple’s users to continue making an opt-in choice for Apple. I choose them for my phone. I just them again for in-app purchases. Continue making choices in support of Apple for each layer of the system. I am not really sure what this buys the consumer. What is Apple blocking from you by forcing you to make that choice once, and then being forced to “never trust developers at scale” for the remainder of being an iPhone customer. Is it blocking “innovation”? Some people think that. I don’t see it. I see a company that pushes the hardware envelope with sensors, battery, operating system, etc, and works hard to give developers access to THOSE things. Maybe not a users email address, but is that really innovation anyway? I looked at this Paddle payment processor and they have some things like “pause subscription”. Is pause really an innovation that is being blocked by only using Apple’s system? Google has supported pause for a long time. Users want it, but to developers really want users pausing their subs? probably not.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - spaceywilly 5y ago
    That’s the thing though, I use apple IAP in my app and I don’t have any clue what the user’s email is. They keep it secret. It’s to the point where I actually advertise that as a benefit of my app, and people mention it in reviews as a reason they chose my app over others. People are tired of their information being sold up the river.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    As a user I would say the platform is at fault, because the seller shouldn't be trusted with the information.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >I’d say that’s just a bad seller who would have spammed you no matter what payment processor you would have gone through Except for Apple who would not have shared my address. Bad sellers on the platform is the platforms problem.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      > Except for Apple who would not have shared my address. Can you prove this?
      - nemothekid 5y ago
        >Can you prove this? If you implement IAP with Apple's billing system, Apple doesn't share your credentials with the seller. There's nothing to prove, you can implement it yourself if you like.
        smoldesu 5y ago
        How does that prove that they aren't retaining or sharing that info with others?
  - bradknowles 5y ago
    Except the platform can help enforce the rules, as Apple does. And the platform can help the customer gain additional privacy from the seller, by offering them “burner” style e-mail addresses for their purchase. I would submit that any platform which doesn’t do these things is “at fault”, at least from the customer point of view.

by alin23 5y ago

drcongo 5y ago

I used Paddle once, many years ago, with a unique "+" address, and still get spam to that address to this day. These days I don't buy software if Paddle is the only option. I always thought the name Paddle was something to do with the flood of spam you can expect.

alin23 5y ago
I’d say that’s just a bad seller who would have spammed you no matter what payment processor you would have gone through. Until now, I’ve used Stripe, Paypal, Paddle and some local Romanian company and all of them provided me the email of the customer where it was available. It’s up to the seller to abide by the rules, the platform isn’t at fault here.
- admax88qqq 5y ago
  The payment processor could have insulated your data. But with paddle it sounds like sharing your data with the vendor is one of their selling points
- drcongo 5y ago
  Unrelated spam from thousands of "companies". > I’d say that’s just a bad seller who would have spammed you no matter what payment processor you would have gone through. Except, of course, it has NEVER happened with the thousands of apps I've bought through Apple's official stores. Not once.
  - alin23 5y ago
    Yes, you won’t see that happening when buying on Apple app store because they don’t share your email. I was mostly talking about avoiding Paddle as a payment processor, the app store isn’t a payment processor so we can’t really compare them. I’d still say the spam came from a seller sharing your address, or leaking it by mistake, not from how Paddle works. If your issue would be Paddle related and recurrent, I don’t think they would still be in the business as trust is very important when handling money and customer data and soon no one would choose them anymore.
    - enos_feedler 5y ago
      The fundamental issue here is that developers, at scale, cannot be trusted. You can trust specific ones to do the right thing but you can’t trust them all. Apple sees themselves as responsible for protecting all of their customers from this reality. Others call them “gatekeepers”. The example here is sharing an email address with developers. There are other examples like “no background processes”. Developers hate this becuase they see _themselves_ as trustworthy but the reality still stands: developers at scale cannot be trusted to do the right thing. Now let me add my opinion on this: Should we have a platform that allows consumers to make a single choice ie) choose Apple, and by proxy never needs to trust developers at scale? Absolutely. Many people, especially developers, would rather trade some developer flexibility (multiple payment processors) and push some responsibility onto Apple’s users to continue making an opt-in choice for Apple. I choose them for my phone. I just them again for in-app purchases. Continue making choices in support of Apple for each layer of the system. I am not really sure what this buys the consumer. What is Apple blocking from you by forcing you to make that choice once, and then being forced to “never trust developers at scale” for the remainder of being an iPhone customer. Is it blocking “innovation”? Some people think that. I don’t see it. I see a company that pushes the hardware envelope with sensors, battery, operating system, etc, and works hard to give developers access to THOSE things. Maybe not a users email address, but is that really innovation anyway? I looked at this Paddle payment processor and they have some things like “pause subscription”. Is pause really an innovation that is being blocked by only using Apple’s system? Google has supported pause for a long time. Users want it, but to developers really want users pausing their subs? probably not.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- spaceywilly 5y ago
  That’s the thing though, I use apple IAP in my app and I don’t have any clue what the user’s email is. They keep it secret. It’s to the point where I actually advertise that as a benefit of my app, and people mention it in reviews as a reason they chose my app over others. People are tired of their information being sold up the river.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  As a user I would say the platform is at fault, because the seller shouldn't be trusted with the information.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >I’d say that’s just a bad seller who would have spammed you no matter what payment processor you would have gone through Except for Apple who would not have shared my address. Bad sellers on the platform is the platforms problem.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    > Except for Apple who would not have shared my address. Can you prove this?
    - nemothekid 5y ago
      >Can you prove this? If you implement IAP with Apple's billing system, Apple doesn't share your credentials with the seller. There's nothing to prove, you can implement it yourself if you like.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        How does that prove that they aren't retaining or sharing that info with others?
- bradknowles 5y ago
  Except the platform can help enforce the rules, as Apple does. And the platform can help the customer gain additional privacy from the seller, by offering them “burner” style e-mail addresses for their purchase. I would submit that any platform which doesn’t do these things is “at fault”, at least from the customer point of view.