5 ms·

The article talks only about how stressful it is for the woman -- and nothing about how the man feels. Seems incrediably like "I used to party with my friends,

The article talks only about how stressful it is for the woman -- and nothing about how the man feels. Seems incrediably like "I used to party with my friends, but now my husband is around alot. So boring!" You would think in well aligned couples this would be the opportunity to go and tour the world together or get divorced a find new partners.

jbd28 5y ago
It highlights how she’s expected to be his servant, AND if she dares to leave she’s not entitled to any pension leaving her with no income options. Who sounds trapped in this scenario?
matthewdgreen 5y ago
I think the entire point here is that the couples are not well-aligned, and traditional societal expectations do not encourage them to be.
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  Thats a good point -- totally agree with you :)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
onceiwasthere 5y ago
But the subject of the wiki page is the observed effects on wives (specifically in Japanese culture), not husbands. There's surely plenty of literature out there on how retired people feel.
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  And? That it only talks about women's and not men's experiences is for sure a fair criticism.
  - Jabbles 5y ago
    The men don't suffer from RHS though, so it's less relevant on an article about RHS. Perhaps there is another article that could be written about them.
    - hungryforcodes 5y ago
      Or they could report about the "male" version and make it more balanced. How is that not fair?
      - ginko 5y ago
        Because the number of retirement age Japanese couples where the man stayed at home and the woman worked full-time late into the evenings for her entire career is probably in the hundreds.
        hungryforcodes 5y ago
        No my point was more -- there must be a male experience of "I'm not working any more suddenly -- now that I've just retired-- and have to hang around at home all the time with nothing to do and my wife seems angry about it." How does that feel for them?
        stnmtn 5y ago
        Do you think that there's not studies that dive into this?
        hungryforcodes 5y ago
        Are there?
        stnmtn 5y ago
        Again I'm just confused as to why you're mad about this when you haven't even googled anything. Why are you putting the burden on me when you are the one complaining they don't exist while spending 0 effort to see if there are any? I'm 1000% positive that there's heaps of research on this, just google "study on male retirees"
- belorn 5y ago
  It is important to note that wikpedia articles is limited to what exist in sources, and if the sources don't consider alternative perspectives than the article can't do it. The article do link to Salaryman, and from there Karoshi, which is one observed effect when people has lost their jobs, which in turn is not identical to retirement but has common aspects to it. Both Karoshi and Retired Husband Syndrome are defined as psychosomatic stress-related illness caused by the model breadwinner. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi) It might be worth linking the two together at the bottom of the Retired Husband Syndrome article.
mfer 5y ago
> You would think in well aligned couples this would be the opportunity to go and tour the world together This requires the finances to do it, the health to handle it, and a lack of responsibilities to others. Then there is the desire which a lot of people don't have. Only a limited number of people can realistically do this. To assume it's open to everyone, I think, misses the contexts most people live with. Change is hard. Retirement doesn't just affect the person retiring. It also affects their spouse, if they have one. It's totally ok to put some focus on that. Japanese culture isn't like western culture. There are differences and I think some of that may be lost on a western crowd. > or get divorced a find new partners You can love someone and still be stressed about them being around all the time or a change. It's not just a change for them but for the spouse.
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  That's absolutely not true. I've lived in Japan and had Japanese girlfriends. They are super westernized and can travel if they want to. But you can substitute "travel" for any other activity including participating in "robot sumo" or golfing. If an older couple want to make their twilight years good then they absolutely can. But if you read the article it seems...quite different. Change IS hard. But my original point is that this change is hard also for men and this is not addressed in the article -- its very one sided.
  - warrenm 5y ago
    > But my original point is that this change is hard also for men and this is not addressed in the article -- its very one sided. You're surprised an article about wives is "very one sided"?
    - hungryforcodes 5y ago
      Hahaha. Well expressed. Any article about husbands could be equally criticized (and should be).
      - 5y ago
msrenee 5y ago
I think the point is that these are not well-aligned couples. They barely see each other for 40 years and then they're stuck together 24/7. This article is specifically about the way this affects the wife. I don't know if there's a related article about the husband's experience, but the male perspective isn't particularly relevant to this article.
JohnWhigham 5y ago
You would think in well aligned couples this would be the opportunity to go and tour the world together or get divorced a find new partners. Well, the latter certainly does happen, a lot. The world is a different place from when our grandparents were young. Nowadays, people tend to keep their options open, and when divorce happens it's usually the women (especially in black communities) that initiate the divorce because they think they can "do better". Doesn't help that family courts still financially and emotionally rape the man since women see this as incentive for divorce.
simonh 5y ago
The article is an Encyclopaedia entry about a specific thing. It's not an article about the general issues around retirements in Japan. it's about this one specific syndrome. It is not reasonable for it to discuss different topics that might have different causes, effects, etc. If you wanted to raise that issue here that's fine, it's arguably on topic here to ask if there's a complementary syndrome affecting husbands and what that is and to discuss issues around it. That's fine, but this isn't an appropriate criticism of the article.
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  Of course it is. There are no rules on HN commenting -- aside from the GENERAL rules -- just because it's a Wikipedia link. I'm not sure where you get that idea from. Open discussion is open discussion.

jbd28 5y ago

It highlights how she’s expected to be his servant, AND if she dares to leave she’s not entitled to any pension leaving her with no income options. Who sounds trapped in this scenario?

matthewdgreen 5y ago

I think the entire point here is that the couples are not well-aligned, and traditional societal expectations do not encourage them to be.

hungryforcodes 5y ago
Thats a good point -- totally agree with you :)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

onceiwasthere 5y ago

But the subject of the wiki page is the observed effects on wives (specifically in Japanese culture), not husbands. There's surely plenty of literature out there on how retired people feel.

hungryforcodes 5y ago
And? That it only talks about women's and not men's experiences is for sure a fair criticism.
- Jabbles 5y ago
  The men don't suffer from RHS though, so it's less relevant on an article about RHS. Perhaps there is another article that could be written about them.
  - hungryforcodes 5y ago
    Or they could report about the "male" version and make it more balanced. How is that not fair?
    - ginko 5y ago
      Because the number of retirement age Japanese couples where the man stayed at home and the woman worked full-time late into the evenings for her entire career is probably in the hundreds.
      - hungryforcodes 5y ago
        No my point was more -- there must be a male experience of "I'm not working any more suddenly -- now that I've just retired-- and have to hang around at home all the time with nothing to do and my wife seems angry about it." How does that feel for them?
        stnmtn 5y ago
        Do you think that there's not studies that dive into this?
        hungryforcodes 5y ago
        Are there?
        stnmtn 5y ago
        Again I'm just confused as to why you're mad about this when you haven't even googled anything. Why are you putting the burden on me when you are the one complaining they don't exist while spending 0 effort to see if there are any? I'm 1000% positive that there's heaps of research on this, just google "study on male retirees"
belorn 5y ago
It is important to note that wikpedia articles is limited to what exist in sources, and if the sources don't consider alternative perspectives than the article can't do it. The article do link to Salaryman, and from there Karoshi, which is one observed effect when people has lost their jobs, which in turn is not identical to retirement but has common aspects to it. Both Karoshi and Retired Husband Syndrome are defined as psychosomatic stress-related illness caused by the model breadwinner. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi) It might be worth linking the two together at the bottom of the Retired Husband Syndrome article.

mfer 5y ago

> You would think in well aligned couples this would be the opportunity to go and tour the world together This requires the finances to do it, the health to handle it, and a lack of responsibilities to others. Then there is the desire which a lot of people don't have. Only a limited number of people can realistically do this. To assume it's open to everyone, I think, misses the contexts most people live with. Change is hard. Retirement doesn't just affect the person retiring. It also affects their spouse, if they have one. It's totally ok to put some focus on that. Japanese culture isn't like western culture. There are differences and I think some of that may be lost on a western crowd. > or get divorced a find new partners You can love someone and still be stressed about them being around all the time or a change. It's not just a change for them but for the spouse.

hungryforcodes 5y ago
That's absolutely not true. I've lived in Japan and had Japanese girlfriends. They are super westernized and can travel if they want to. But you can substitute "travel" for any other activity including participating in "robot sumo" or golfing. If an older couple want to make their twilight years good then they absolutely can. But if you read the article it seems...quite different. Change IS hard. But my original point is that this change is hard also for men and this is not addressed in the article -- its very one sided.
- warrenm 5y ago
  > But my original point is that this change is hard also for men and this is not addressed in the article -- its very one sided. You're surprised an article about wives is "very one sided"?
  - hungryforcodes 5y ago
    Hahaha. Well expressed. Any article about husbands could be equally criticized (and should be).
    - 5y ago

msrenee 5y ago

I think the point is that these are not well-aligned couples. They barely see each other for 40 years and then they're stuck together 24/7. This article is specifically about the way this affects the wife. I don't know if there's a related article about the husband's experience, but the male perspective isn't particularly relevant to this article.

JohnWhigham 5y ago

You would think in well aligned couples this would be the opportunity to go and tour the world together or get divorced a find new partners. Well, the latter certainly does happen, a lot. The world is a different place from when our grandparents were young. Nowadays, people tend to keep their options open, and when divorce happens it's usually the women (especially in black communities) that initiate the divorce because they think they can "do better". Doesn't help that family courts still financially and emotionally rape the man since women see this as incentive for divorce.

simonh 5y ago

The article is an Encyclopaedia entry about a specific thing. It's not an article about the general issues around retirements in Japan. it's about this one specific syndrome. It is not reasonable for it to discuss different topics that might have different causes, effects, etc. If you wanted to raise that issue here that's fine, it's arguably on topic here to ask if there's a complementary syndrome affecting husbands and what that is and to discuss issues around it. That's fine, but this isn't an appropriate criticism of the article.

hungryforcodes 5y ago
Of course it is. There are no rules on HN commenting -- aside from the GENERAL rules -- just because it's a Wikipedia link. I'm not sure where you get that idea from. Open discussion is open discussion.