5 ms·

What's in a version number? (Or: Musings on backwards compatibility)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
itamarst 5y ago
If you accept this argument, the next logical step is figuring out what features are being used and how. Standard method is just guessing, but there's: 1. What rustc does with crater (linked from article), where you can actually test real code. On a smaller scale, the author of the article points out cryptography package for Python, which runs tests of its most popular upstream dependencies. This latter is probably feasible for many libraries. 2. Analytics, though this requires work to make it private and anonymous, and for libraries maybe requires system-level infrastructure. (Again, this was suggested by Alex.) 3. Beta testing, surveys, and other forms of user feedback.
ghoward 5y ago
I like his idea, but it sounds a little hypocritical coming from someone who advocated a change that broke many distros builds of the Python cryptography package. Personally, I think he spent his "backwards-incompatibility budget" for about 5 years with that change because that's probably how long it will take for the new version of cryptography to be widely adopted and supported long-term.
nammi 5y ago
I was really surprised Rich Hickey's talk wasn't linked to: https://youtu.be/oyLBGkS5ICk https://youtu.be/oyLBGkS5ICk
yawnxyz 5y ago
I work with a bunch of biologists and one of my jobs is to find a solution for the filename_final_final_FINALNEWEST.xlsx problem... thinking about how to convince people to use something like a versioning system, or just use a single number, e.g. filename-4.xlsx, and write a tool to collapse all those finals into a number, e.g. filename_final_final.xlsx into filename_final2.xlsx... I'm still not sure if it's the best way to go about it though. But I think version numbering is still much stronger than tacking multiple "finals" to a file name. Happy to hear what others are doing!
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  There is a ton of money to be made if one can create a vcs for office.
- vegetablepotpie 5y ago
  The method I use and often encourage other people to use is version control latex and csv files and python scripts in git, which can do everything MS office does. This has worked exactly zero times, so what I encourage others to do instead is… Use the format filename_YEAR_MO_DY_username.xlsx. This has the benefit that Lexicographic ordering every OS does in its file explorer is the same as chronological order, so it acts as a crude version control system.
  - intrepidhero 5y ago
    > The method I use and often encourage other people to use is version control latex and csv files and python scripts in git, which can do everything MS office does. This has worked exactly zero times Yeah and, sadly, yeah. Someday.
  - xapata 5y ago
    I add a letter to distinguish between updates made on the same day: 2021-10-08a, 2021-10-08b. So far no one has been so quick with updates that I've gone past z, but I'll have my y2k moment someday.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
      You can always go into the Greek letters. 2021-10-08α, etc.
      - xapata 5y ago
        That'd break my regex.
    - gjvnq 5y ago
      Go the Excel route: .. z aa ab ac ... ba bb bc bd ... zz aaa aab aac ...
euske 5y ago
I'd say that with a sufficient number of users, software development becomes pretty much politics; No matter how you change the status quo, some people will complain. You can't make everyone happy.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

If you accept this argument, the next logical step is figuring out what features are being used and how. Standard method is just guessing, but there's: 1. What rustc does with crater (linked from article), where you can actually test real code. On a smaller scale, the author of the article points out cryptography package for Python, which runs tests of its most popular upstream dependencies. This latter is probably feasible for many libraries. 2. Analytics, though this requires work to make it private and anonymous, and for libraries maybe requires system-level infrastructure. (Again, this was suggested by Alex.) 3. Beta testing, surveys, and other forms of user feedback.

ghoward 5y ago

I like his idea, but it sounds a little hypocritical coming from someone who advocated a change that broke many distros builds of the Python cryptography package. Personally, I think he spent his "backwards-incompatibility budget" for about 5 years with that change because that's probably how long it will take for the new version of cryptography to be widely adopted and supported long-term.

nammi 5y ago

I was really surprised Rich Hickey's talk wasn't linked to: https://youtu.be/oyLBGkS5ICk https://youtu.be/oyLBGkS5ICk

yawnxyz 5y ago

I work with a bunch of biologists and one of my jobs is to find a solution for the filename_final_final_FINALNEWEST.xlsx problem... thinking about how to convince people to use something like a versioning system, or just use a single number, e.g. filename-4.xlsx, and write a tool to collapse all those finals into a number, e.g. filename_final_final.xlsx into filename_final2.xlsx... I'm still not sure if it's the best way to go about it though. But I think version numbering is still much stronger than tacking multiple "finals" to a file name. Happy to hear what others are doing!

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
There is a ton of money to be made if one can create a vcs for office.
vegetablepotpie 5y ago
The method I use and often encourage other people to use is version control latex and csv files and python scripts in git, which can do everything MS office does. This has worked exactly zero times, so what I encourage others to do instead is… Use the format filename_YEAR_MO_DY_username.xlsx. This has the benefit that Lexicographic ordering every OS does in its file explorer is the same as chronological order, so it acts as a crude version control system.
- intrepidhero 5y ago
  > The method I use and often encourage other people to use is version control latex and csv files and python scripts in git, which can do everything MS office does. This has worked exactly zero times Yeah and, sadly, yeah. Someday.
- xapata 5y ago
  I add a letter to distinguish between updates made on the same day: 2021-10-08a, 2021-10-08b. So far no one has been so quick with updates that I've gone past z, but I'll have my y2k moment someday.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
    You can always go into the Greek letters. 2021-10-08α, etc.
    - xapata 5y ago
      That'd break my regex.
  - gjvnq 5y ago
    Go the Excel route: .. z aa ab ac ... ba bb bc bd ... zz aaa aab aac ...

euske 5y ago

I'd say that with a sufficient number of users, software development becomes pretty much politics; No matter how you change the status quo, some people will complain. You can't make everyone happy.