5 ms·

It wouldn't be "a bit" higher, it would be out of the market. A completely analogous situation is how if we manufactured computers using something other than (e

by qsort 5y ago

It wouldn't be "a bit" higher, it would be out of the market. A completely analogous situation is how if we manufactured computers using something other than (effectively) slave labor, a macbook would cost $15,000. These problems will go away in the same way similar problems have gone away in the past: with technology advancing to a point where no humans are required to be in the loop any longer.

MrGilbert 5y ago
> a macbook would cost $15,000. Devil's advocate: What's bad about that? Guess we would appreciate the value of the device way more if it would be that expensive. Also, by reducing the margin available to the company, it certainly wouldn't land at 15k. And yes, that would also mean that "shareholders" won't be able to make millions.
- qsort 5y ago
  The downside would be that much fewer people would be able to afford it in the first place. Cheap personal computers are a very powerful force for good, this is a very unpalatable but reasonable compromise. Taking the other side of the compromise is of course also reasonable, but pretending it's somehow a free lunch is not realistic.
- mbg721 5y ago
  I'd be in favor of that if it meant that companies and government would go back to taking mail and phone calls seriously.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Did cotton get more expensive after slavery was abolished? I feel like there might just be a small number of evil people extracting all the benefit and not passing those savings on to me.
- qsort 5y ago
  By the Civil War era, there were suppliers of cotton in Africa and South-East Asia that were cheaper and more reliable than the Confederate states. Hint: they didn't treat their workers much better than plantation owners treated slaves. The point here isn't who is good and who is evil, I'm purposefully avoiding that. The point is that it's not possible to both have $1,000 laptops and decent wages for workers. I find it very reasonable that one would say that no, it's not acceptable to treat workers like that, and if that means we can't have laptops, we'll do without. I don't find it reasonable to claim you can have both.
xyzzy123 5y ago
Can I ask how you arrive at that $15k figure please?
- qsort 5y ago
  It's not supposed to be an actual figure, but an increase of 0.5 to 1 orders of magnitude is realistic considering the price of similar products, like the Librem 5 USA.
  - tremon 5y ago
    Then again, if the Librem 5 were manufactured in the same volumes as a MacBook, that would probably save an order of magnitude in parts procurement, stocking, availability, and price negotiations, so in effect the costs would cancel out.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
I think the 15000 number is way too high.
lupire 5y ago
This is absurd because a $1000 Mac has the same labor cost as a $179 a Chromebook

by qsort 5y ago

MrGilbert 5y ago

> a macbook would cost $15,000. Devil's advocate: What's bad about that? Guess we would appreciate the value of the device way more if it would be that expensive. Also, by reducing the margin available to the company, it certainly wouldn't land at 15k. And yes, that would also mean that "shareholders" won't be able to make millions.

qsort 5y ago
The downside would be that much fewer people would be able to afford it in the first place. Cheap personal computers are a very powerful force for good, this is a very unpalatable but reasonable compromise. Taking the other side of the compromise is of course also reasonable, but pretending it's somehow a free lunch is not realistic.
mbg721 5y ago
I'd be in favor of that if it meant that companies and government would go back to taking mail and phone calls seriously.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

Did cotton get more expensive after slavery was abolished? I feel like there might just be a small number of evil people extracting all the benefit and not passing those savings on to me.

qsort 5y ago
By the Civil War era, there were suppliers of cotton in Africa and South-East Asia that were cheaper and more reliable than the Confederate states. Hint: they didn't treat their workers much better than plantation owners treated slaves. The point here isn't who is good and who is evil, I'm purposefully avoiding that. The point is that it's not possible to both have $1,000 laptops and decent wages for workers. I find it very reasonable that one would say that no, it's not acceptable to treat workers like that, and if that means we can't have laptops, we'll do without. I don't find it reasonable to claim you can have both.

xyzzy123 5y ago

Can I ask how you arrive at that $15k figure please?

qsort 5y ago
It's not supposed to be an actual figure, but an increase of 0.5 to 1 orders of magnitude is realistic considering the price of similar products, like the Librem 5 USA.
- tremon 5y ago
  Then again, if the Librem 5 were manufactured in the same volumes as a MacBook, that would probably save an order of magnitude in parts procurement, stocking, availability, and price negotiations, so in effect the costs would cancel out.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

I think the 15000 number is way too high.

lupire 5y ago

This is absurd because a $1000 Mac has the same labor cost as a $179 a Chromebook