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Well, I was reading it about 4 hours ago, and I'd like to be told why one should be libertarian. :) But I'm genuinely curious to see what sort of reasoning led

by walterk 18y ago

Well, I was reading it about 4 hours ago, and I'd like to be told why one should be libertarian. :) But I'm genuinely curious to see what sort of reasoning led to Thiel's becoming a libertarian, and there's just not much to go on in the interview. People of many political persuasions, after all, maintain a healthy dislike for totalitarianism. And anyone who's taken Lord Acton's proverb to heart should recognize that corruption can manifest itself in those who hold market power just as easily as in those who hold political power.

byrneseyeview 18y ago
corruption can manifest itself in those who hold market power just as easily as in those who hold political power. Not really. People in business pursue the profit-maximizing choice, which at its worst means providing something unique enough that you can charge a monopolistic price. People in government pursue the power-maximizing choice, which at its best means maintaining the status quo until the next election. I guess it's too bad we don't have his whole conversion story, but I notice that NPR will not ask guests how they all became indistinguishable center-leftists.
- walterk 18y ago
  "People in business pursue the profit-maximizing choice, which at its worst means providing something unique enough that you can charge a monopolistic price." You're assuming they're bound by laws and aren't willing to subvert them to make a profit. At their worst, people in business have done a whole lot worse.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    >At their worst, people in business have done a whole lot worse. I challenge you to show me a single non-governmental entity that has done anything as bad as the Great Leap Forward, the Holocaust, the slayings of the Khmer Rouge, the starving of the Ukraine, etc. You aren't really competing with government in the killing-people field until you do it by the millions.
  - byrneseyeview 18y ago
    There are two ways to subvert the laws. One way is to take a rule that arbitrary parties would agree to in advance (e.g. "If a car belongs to A, B can't just drive off in it without being penalized"). The other set of laws involves taking some government program (whether of the 'shoot at people in the Third World' or the 'write a check to people who are doing some particular kind of good' variety) and subvert it to maximize profits. You don't stay in business very long if you violate A, and you can only do B when the government is rich enough to rob.
Prrometheus 18y ago
>And anyone who's taken Lord Acton's proverb to heart should recognize that corruption can manifest itself in those who hold market power just as easily as in those who hold political power. Political power tends to come in big chunks while market power is disperse. If I had to choose between fighting any given private firm or the government, I have no doubt as to which one I'd pick.
Prrometheus 18y ago
>And anyone who's taken Lord Acton's proverb to heart should recognize that corruption can manifest itself in those who hold market power just as easily as in those who hold political power. Political power tends to come in big chunks while market power is disperse. If I had to choose between fighting any given private firm or the government, I have no doubt as to which one I'd pick. Comcast could screw with my cable. The government could make me disappear.
- walterk 18y ago
  "Comcast could screw with my cable." Was that the worst example you could think of? "The government could make me disappear." So could a private firm.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    Do you know of any private firms that disappear people who speak out against them? Governments have been doing that for millenia, but I can't think of a single private firm that has done so. The US government has a military and intelligence budget north of $600 billion and operates secret prisons around the world.
  - byrneseyeview 18y ago
    The worst examples are, of course, things companies would not do. Like your grocer not selling you food, or your landlord not renewing your lease. Which should tell you something: the worst people say about governments is that they behave the way they do -- the worst thing people say about corporations is how terrible it would be if they didn't behave the way they normally do.

by walterk 18y ago

byrneseyeview 18y ago

corruption can manifest itself in those who hold market power just as easily as in those who hold political power. Not really. People in business pursue the profit-maximizing choice, which at its worst means providing something unique enough that you can charge a monopolistic price. People in government pursue the power-maximizing choice, which at its best means maintaining the status quo until the next election. I guess it's too bad we don't have his whole conversion story, but I notice that NPR will not ask guests how they all became indistinguishable center-leftists.

walterk 18y ago
"People in business pursue the profit-maximizing choice, which at its worst means providing something unique enough that you can charge a monopolistic price." You're assuming they're bound by laws and aren't willing to subvert them to make a profit. At their worst, people in business have done a whole lot worse.
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  >At their worst, people in business have done a whole lot worse. I challenge you to show me a single non-governmental entity that has done anything as bad as the Great Leap Forward, the Holocaust, the slayings of the Khmer Rouge, the starving of the Ukraine, etc. You aren't really competing with government in the killing-people field until you do it by the millions.
- byrneseyeview 18y ago
  There are two ways to subvert the laws. One way is to take a rule that arbitrary parties would agree to in advance (e.g. "If a car belongs to A, B can't just drive off in it without being penalized"). The other set of laws involves taking some government program (whether of the 'shoot at people in the Third World' or the 'write a check to people who are doing some particular kind of good' variety) and subvert it to maximize profits. You don't stay in business very long if you violate A, and you can only do B when the government is rich enough to rob.

Prrometheus 18y ago

>And anyone who's taken Lord Acton's proverb to heart should recognize that corruption can manifest itself in those who hold market power just as easily as in those who hold political power. Political power tends to come in big chunks while market power is disperse. If I had to choose between fighting any given private firm or the government, I have no doubt as to which one I'd pick.

Prrometheus 18y ago

walterk 18y ago
"Comcast could screw with my cable." Was that the worst example you could think of? "The government could make me disappear." So could a private firm.
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  Do you know of any private firms that disappear people who speak out against them? Governments have been doing that for millenia, but I can't think of a single private firm that has done so. The US government has a military and intelligence budget north of $600 billion and operates secret prisons around the world.
- byrneseyeview 18y ago
  The worst examples are, of course, things companies would not do. Like your grocer not selling you food, or your landlord not renewing your lease. Which should tell you something: the worst people say about governments is that they behave the way they do -- the worst thing people say about corporations is how terrible it would be if they didn't behave the way they normally do.