6 ms·

I'm sorry, what applications? Besides accelerating global warming there doesn't seem to be anything it's good at.

by zacmps 5y ago

BrianHenryIE 5y ago
Commerce.
- cemerick 5y ago
  Among whom, and for what? Average transaction fees were substantially above $5 - $10 for nearly a year, and have now settled around $2 - $3. No one was looking to transact in BTC before that spike, and that goes double now.
- amin 5y ago
  What percentage of people who bought bitcoin today, bought it with the intent of making normal commerce-related transactions?
  - jliptzin 5y ago
    Just because there are a large number of market participants involved purely for speculation does not mean we can just ignore those who are there for genuine commercial transactions. What percent of people who buy oil futures contracts intend to take delivery of thousands of gallons of oil?
  - BrianHenryIE 5y ago
    I made a sibling comment where I said a company I work for accepts Bitcoin and ships orders once confirmed. So, in the past month, the customers who paid via Bitcoin... presumably bought it with the intent of making normal commerce-related transactions.
- BrianHenryIE 5y ago
  To be entirely clear, a company I work with accepts Bitcoin, then ships physical products.
  - bb88 5y ago
    So if you were paid in BTC, would you keep it in BTC or move much of it back to cash in case BTC plummets? If it's an investment, no more than 30% of your net worth should be wrapped up in one investment. If it's a currency and you're happy if the price takes a plunge. It seems to me, as long as the price fluctuates, I would prefer cash because I would be able to buy BTC during the dips.
  - Freskis 5y ago
    Is it possible you are not being accurate? That the company is actually receiving cash which has been converted from Bitcoin by a service? Accepting raw Bitcoin would lead to huge problems such as transaction time and price volatility. Either way, accepting bitcoin is horrifically bad for the environment, and one of the most ecologically destructive things tech companies do. It is not something I would be proud of.
    - BrianHenryIE 5y ago
      Yes, straight up Bitcoin accepted. A single digit percentage of revenue. But I don't think that changes the point much, that it is used for commerce. And yes, the realisation that it's bad is a brewing thought. I've never invested any of my own money in Bitcoin (€200 in Ethereum) so I excuse (to myself) my involvement because it's passive. https://wordpress.org/plugins/triplea-cryptocurrency-payment-gateway-for-woocommerce/ https://wordpress.org/plugins/triplea-cryptocurrency-payment...
stale2002 5y ago
> what applications? Back in 2010, credit card companies blocked off all donations to wikileaks, even though they had not been found to be breaking any laws. Yet, people could still donate bitcoin to them. Censorship resistance, is still useful, even in situations where nobody has broken any laws.
glenvdb 5y ago
Please look at this data and then come back and tell me you still think Bitcoin mining is having a meaningful impact on climate change and why. https://cbeci.org/index/comparisons https://cbeci.org/index/comparisons I'd be curious to read your thoughts.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  Not op but I quickly looked through your link. It's as bad as I thought. There is so need to waste so much energy into a bad database.
  - glenvdb 5y ago
    Lots of people disagree with you about that. Sorry you see it as a waste, but we're going to keep using it and dedicating more energy towards it because we understand its value. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc
- forgotmyoldname 5y ago
  So Bitcoin uses more energy than an entire country of 110 million people (the Philippines). That's absolutely nuts. If you said you could reduce an entire country's CO2 emissions to zero overnight, and you had a valid plan to do so, you'd be on the cover of every newspaper for your revolutionary plan to help save the earth. But say you want to flip a switch and turn off a single cryptocurrency in order to do it, and you'll have floods of people trivializing it, saying "well, let me tell you why 110 million people's CO2 emissions aren't that big of a deal..."
  - glenvdb 5y ago
    Scroll down to the bar chart showing the country rankings. Look at the top 3 countries (China, US, India). Compare those to Bitcoin... can you honestly tell me that Bitcoin constitutes a significant amount of energy consumption in that context? And it's also worth noting that energy consumption isn't necessarily bad for climate change. You're conflating "energy consumption" with "CO2 emissions". It's CO2 emissions that are the problem, and Bitcoin energy consumption is far more green than most other industries. So we have a monetary network that consumes a globally insignificant amount of energy and is more green than many other industries... is it really a significant problem? https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/bitcoin-energy-use-compare-industry https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/bitcoin-energy-use-comp... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc
rubinelli 5y ago
That's not true. It's fantastic for ransomware and scams in general.
- bb88 5y ago
  Soon as a payment for CSAM... wait.. that already exists I'm sure.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  It's pretty terrible for that because it's easily traceable.
nprz 5y ago
Pseudonymous, censorship-resistent, permissionless, peer-to-peer. Many people in authoritarian or monetarily irresponsible countries use these features to protect, store, and transfer their wealth[0]. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jul/31/out-of-control-and-rising-why-bitcoin-has-nigerias-government-in-a-panic https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jul/31/out-of-co...
- forgotmyoldname 5y ago
  I hear this a lot. It sounds nice. Yet trying to set up crypto as a person in a developed country in 2021 is kind of a pain in the ass. It's not too hard to exchange between types of crypto, but getting real money that I can buy a pizza with in and out of an exchange? Not too easy. There are requirements for credit cards or confirmed bank accounts for payment, scans of an ID card or driver's license to prove I'm a human, the possibility banks can at any point determine it's a scam and block transfers to any exchange, and so on. If it's that hard for me, a person in a developed and ostensibly free country to do it, how the hell is some average person--not a government official or wealthy person with connections--in North Korea or Eritrea going to set it up and secure their financial future to any degree better than a pocket full of cash and old jewelry?
jliptzin 5y ago
I said crypto generally, not just Bitcoin, as the article in this post is not only focused on Bitcoin but crypto in a broad sense.

I'm sorry, what applications? Besides accelerating global warming there doesn't seem to be anything it's good at.

by zacmps 5y ago

I'm sorry, what applications? Besides accelerating global warming there doesn't seem to be anything it's good at.

BrianHenryIE 5y ago

Commerce.

cemerick 5y ago
Among whom, and for what? Average transaction fees were substantially above $5 - $10 for nearly a year, and have now settled around $2 - $3. No one was looking to transact in BTC before that spike, and that goes double now.
amin 5y ago
What percentage of people who bought bitcoin today, bought it with the intent of making normal commerce-related transactions?
- jliptzin 5y ago
  Just because there are a large number of market participants involved purely for speculation does not mean we can just ignore those who are there for genuine commercial transactions. What percent of people who buy oil futures contracts intend to take delivery of thousands of gallons of oil?
- BrianHenryIE 5y ago
  I made a sibling comment where I said a company I work for accepts Bitcoin and ships orders once confirmed. So, in the past month, the customers who paid via Bitcoin... presumably bought it with the intent of making normal commerce-related transactions.
BrianHenryIE 5y ago
To be entirely clear, a company I work with accepts Bitcoin, then ships physical products.
- bb88 5y ago
  So if you were paid in BTC, would you keep it in BTC or move much of it back to cash in case BTC plummets? If it's an investment, no more than 30% of your net worth should be wrapped up in one investment. If it's a currency and you're happy if the price takes a plunge. It seems to me, as long as the price fluctuates, I would prefer cash because I would be able to buy BTC during the dips.
- Freskis 5y ago
  Is it possible you are not being accurate? That the company is actually receiving cash which has been converted from Bitcoin by a service? Accepting raw Bitcoin would lead to huge problems such as transaction time and price volatility. Either way, accepting bitcoin is horrifically bad for the environment, and one of the most ecologically destructive things tech companies do. It is not something I would be proud of.
  - BrianHenryIE 5y ago
    Yes, straight up Bitcoin accepted. A single digit percentage of revenue. But I don't think that changes the point much, that it is used for commerce. And yes, the realisation that it's bad is a brewing thought. I've never invested any of my own money in Bitcoin (€200 in Ethereum) so I excuse (to myself) my involvement because it's passive. https://wordpress.org/plugins/triplea-cryptocurrency-payment-gateway-for-woocommerce/ https://wordpress.org/plugins/triplea-cryptocurrency-payment...

stale2002 5y ago

> what applications? Back in 2010, credit card companies blocked off all donations to wikileaks, even though they had not been found to be breaking any laws. Yet, people could still donate bitcoin to them. Censorship resistance, is still useful, even in situations where nobody has broken any laws.

glenvdb 5y ago

Please look at this data and then come back and tell me you still think Bitcoin mining is having a meaningful impact on climate change and why. https://cbeci.org/index/comparisons https://cbeci.org/index/comparisons I'd be curious to read your thoughts.

speedgoose 5y ago
Not op but I quickly looked through your link. It's as bad as I thought. There is so need to waste so much energy into a bad database.
- glenvdb 5y ago
  Lots of people disagree with you about that. Sorry you see it as a waste, but we're going to keep using it and dedicating more energy towards it because we understand its value. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc
forgotmyoldname 5y ago
So Bitcoin uses more energy than an entire country of 110 million people (the Philippines). That's absolutely nuts. If you said you could reduce an entire country's CO2 emissions to zero overnight, and you had a valid plan to do so, you'd be on the cover of every newspaper for your revolutionary plan to help save the earth. But say you want to flip a switch and turn off a single cryptocurrency in order to do it, and you'll have floods of people trivializing it, saying "well, let me tell you why 110 million people's CO2 emissions aren't that big of a deal..."
- glenvdb 5y ago
  Scroll down to the bar chart showing the country rankings. Look at the top 3 countries (China, US, India). Compare those to Bitcoin... can you honestly tell me that Bitcoin constitutes a significant amount of energy consumption in that context? And it's also worth noting that energy consumption isn't necessarily bad for climate change. You're conflating "energy consumption" with "CO2 emissions". It's CO2 emissions that are the problem, and Bitcoin energy consumption is far more green than most other industries. So we have a monetary network that consumes a globally insignificant amount of energy and is more green than many other industries... is it really a significant problem? https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/bitcoin-energy-use-compare-industry https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/bitcoin-energy-use-comp... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc

rubinelli 5y ago

That's not true. It's fantastic for ransomware and scams in general.

bb88 5y ago
Soon as a payment for CSAM... wait.. that already exists I'm sure.
anonporridge 5y ago
It's pretty terrible for that because it's easily traceable.

nprz 5y ago

Pseudonymous, censorship-resistent, permissionless, peer-to-peer. Many people in authoritarian or monetarily irresponsible countries use these features to protect, store, and transfer their wealth[0]. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jul/31/out-of-control-and-rising-why-bitcoin-has-nigerias-government-in-a-panic https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jul/31/out-of-co...

forgotmyoldname 5y ago
I hear this a lot. It sounds nice. Yet trying to set up crypto as a person in a developed country in 2021 is kind of a pain in the ass. It's not too hard to exchange between types of crypto, but getting real money that I can buy a pizza with in and out of an exchange? Not too easy. There are requirements for credit cards or confirmed bank accounts for payment, scans of an ID card or driver's license to prove I'm a human, the possibility banks can at any point determine it's a scam and block transfers to any exchange, and so on. If it's that hard for me, a person in a developed and ostensibly free country to do it, how the hell is some average person--not a government official or wealthy person with connections--in North Korea or Eritrea going to set it up and secure their financial future to any degree better than a pocket full of cash and old jewelry?

jliptzin 5y ago

I said crypto generally, not just Bitcoin, as the article in this post is not only focused on Bitcoin but crypto in a broad sense.