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Blame financial news media, things like Fortune magazine's list of new crypto billionaires. The author of this blog post's claim that 99.99% of people in crypt

Blame financial news media, things like Fortune magazine's list of new crypto billionaires. The author of this blog post's claim that 99.99% of people in crypto are only participating because of expectations of future profit is unsourced and a fiction that he has created based on preconceived notions. Don't participate if you don't want - I like participating in a system that isn't being tracked by agencies especially with news of Treasury actively building out systematic functionality to investigate any bank accounts with transactions exceeding $600

vkou 5y ago
> Blame financial news media, things like Fortune magazine's list of new crypto billionaires. The crypto financial news community was writing about this long before Fortune picked it up.
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  financial news media is a superset of the crypto financial news media; my statement remains true
  - vkou 5y ago
    Okay, so what you're saying is that the crypto community is what pushed crypto in that direction.
    - arthurcolle 5y ago
      This does not follow from what I said at all.
      - vkou 5y ago
        Are you claiming that crypto-finnews was not dominated by the crypto community prior to, say, 2018? The same community that complained at every turn that real media/finance is not taking crypto seriously?
Osmose 5y ago
I mean focusing on whether it's a Ponzi scheme in particular vs the entire breadth of reasons to like or not like Bitcoin brings up whether it should attract _more regulation_, the question of free choice to participate or not is moot because it's considered misleading and fraudulent.
wpietri 5y ago
I'd bet that cryptocurrencies are much more vigorously tracked than US dollars. The fraction of cryptocurrency transactions related to scams, fraud, money laundering, tax evasion, and other financial crime must be at least a couple orders of magnitude higher than that for real money.
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  This gets to the heart of the issue with these discussions - people like yourself asserting non-factual statements based on the equally (if not more so) incorrect assertions they hear from others. Where are your sources? Why do you feel like you need to state things as fact when you just don't like something? You are exactly incorrect. Cash represents the overwhelming supermajority of laundered funds and ongoing credit extended across criminal elements. https://www.swift.com/sites/default/files/files/swift_bae_report_Follow-The%20Money.pdf https://www.swift.com/sites/default/files/files/swift_bae_re... Cash is the heart of the criminal economy, crypto is creating a transparency that doesn't exist in traditional peer to peer physical transaction systems like cash or IOUs. I'm done with this, nothing productive is coming out of this conversation.
  - Osmose 5y ago
    You talk about sources but like where in that pdf does it speak to your claim (cash is the majority of laundered funds) or to the parents separate claim (the percentage of crypto that is used for scams, fraud, etc. is higher than the percentage of cash used for the same). It just talks about _how_ the crime works, not the statistics in question.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    I didn't state any facts. I started with "I bet" and included "must be". Those are pretty clear opinion markers. Your reply is also confused. Is the majority of money laundering denominated in USD and other real currencies? I'd believe it, because that's where the money is. But I'm saying the proportion of Bitcoin transactions that are fincrime-related is surely much higher than that of total USD transactions. This seems pretty obvious to me given that Bitcoin is much less useful for quotidian transactions, but much more useful to people engaged in assorted financial crime. That's unsurprising given how much cryptocurrency advocates tout privacy/anonymity as features. But if you think otherwise, feel free to show the data that has convinced you otherwise. Also, it's bad form to read something, go on a rant, and then declare the conversation over. Especially when the rant is incorrect.
rebuilder 5y ago
Stolfi has been around the crypto scene a long time, long enough to have gotten a pretty good idea of what motivates people. The news media did not create the gold rush mentality around crypto, it has been there almost from the beginning. Go and read the bitcointalk forums for evidence, if you want.
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  I have been involved in crypto since 2013, I get it. But I have given up engaging in these conversations. You either get the anti-statist thesis and economic liberation angle or you don't. If you don't then OK, best of luck. I like having spending power that isn't immediately based on CIA organized crime or boomers at the Fed/Treasury

vkou 5y ago

> Blame financial news media, things like Fortune magazine's list of new crypto billionaires. The crypto financial news community was writing about this long before Fortune picked it up.

arthurcolle 5y ago
financial news media is a superset of the crypto financial news media; my statement remains true
- vkou 5y ago
  Okay, so what you're saying is that the crypto community is what pushed crypto in that direction.
  - arthurcolle 5y ago
    This does not follow from what I said at all.
    - vkou 5y ago
      Are you claiming that crypto-finnews was not dominated by the crypto community prior to, say, 2018? The same community that complained at every turn that real media/finance is not taking crypto seriously?

Osmose 5y ago

I mean focusing on whether it's a Ponzi scheme in particular vs the entire breadth of reasons to like or not like Bitcoin brings up whether it should attract _more regulation_, the question of free choice to participate or not is moot because it's considered misleading and fraudulent.

wpietri 5y ago

I'd bet that cryptocurrencies are much more vigorously tracked than US dollars. The fraction of cryptocurrency transactions related to scams, fraud, money laundering, tax evasion, and other financial crime must be at least a couple orders of magnitude higher than that for real money.

arthurcolle 5y ago
This gets to the heart of the issue with these discussions - people like yourself asserting non-factual statements based on the equally (if not more so) incorrect assertions they hear from others. Where are your sources? Why do you feel like you need to state things as fact when you just don't like something? You are exactly incorrect. Cash represents the overwhelming supermajority of laundered funds and ongoing credit extended across criminal elements. https://www.swift.com/sites/default/files/files/swift_bae_report_Follow-The%20Money.pdf https://www.swift.com/sites/default/files/files/swift_bae_re... Cash is the heart of the criminal economy, crypto is creating a transparency that doesn't exist in traditional peer to peer physical transaction systems like cash or IOUs. I'm done with this, nothing productive is coming out of this conversation.
- Osmose 5y ago
  You talk about sources but like where in that pdf does it speak to your claim (cash is the majority of laundered funds) or to the parents separate claim (the percentage of crypto that is used for scams, fraud, etc. is higher than the percentage of cash used for the same). It just talks about _how_ the crime works, not the statistics in question.
- wpietri 5y ago
  I didn't state any facts. I started with "I bet" and included "must be". Those are pretty clear opinion markers. Your reply is also confused. Is the majority of money laundering denominated in USD and other real currencies? I'd believe it, because that's where the money is. But I'm saying the proportion of Bitcoin transactions that are fincrime-related is surely much higher than that of total USD transactions. This seems pretty obvious to me given that Bitcoin is much less useful for quotidian transactions, but much more useful to people engaged in assorted financial crime. That's unsurprising given how much cryptocurrency advocates tout privacy/anonymity as features. But if you think otherwise, feel free to show the data that has convinced you otherwise. Also, it's bad form to read something, go on a rant, and then declare the conversation over. Especially when the rant is incorrect.

rebuilder 5y ago

Stolfi has been around the crypto scene a long time, long enough to have gotten a pretty good idea of what motivates people. The news media did not create the gold rush mentality around crypto, it has been there almost from the beginning. Go and read the bitcointalk forums for evidence, if you want.

arthurcolle 5y ago
I have been involved in crypto since 2013, I get it. But I have given up engaging in these conversations. You either get the anti-statist thesis and economic liberation angle or you don't. If you don't then OK, best of luck. I like having spending power that isn't immediately based on CIA organized crime or boomers at the Fed/Treasury