4 ms·
No placebo control, and not even mention of limitations of the study. Of course getting into a hyperbaric chamber with even normal pressure in itself will have
by cpncrunch 5y ago
No placebo control, and not even mention of limitations of the study. Of course getting into a hyperbaric chamber with even normal pressure in itself will have a cognitive effect.
- jasonlaramburu 5y agoIt seems like it would be impossible to have a true double blind study with something like hyperbaric oxygen. Once the chamber reaches pressure, it is very obvious to the patient.
- FredPret 5y agoI wonder if one could compensate by having a control group with high-pressure but low-concentration oxygen
- jasonlaramburu 5y agoWould that be safe for the patients?
- FredPret 5y agoI speak under correction but I think that's how diving works - high pressure air, with extra nitrogen. So the concentration of oxygen is less but the total amount is the same
- BenjiWiebe 5y agoI too speak under correction, but usually the nitrogen gas is actually at a lower percentage or eliminated altogether. Pressurized nitrogen causes nitrogen narcosis, so the filler gas instead is commonly helium.
- twic 5y ago> Each treatment included 20‐minute pure oxygen inhalation (O2 = 99.9%, oxygen supply pressure 0.4 to 0.7 MPa, oxygen flow 10 to 15 L/h), 15 minutes interval, and then another 20‐minute pure oxygen inhalation (O2 = 99.9%, oxygen supply pressure 0.4 to 0.7 MPa, oxygen flow 10 to 15 L/h) under the pressure of 0.22 MPa (0.12 MPa on pressure gauge) in hyperbaric oxygen chamber (Medical Oxygen Chamber, SY3200‐8500, Yantai Hongyuan Oxygen Industrial Inc., Shandong, China). Controls that spring to mind would be to have the chamber pressurised to a lower pressure (if you're not already familiar with hyperbaric chambers, you won't know it's at a lower pressure), or to replace the pure oxygen with normal air. Showing a dose-response relationship to pressure or oxygen concentration would go a long way towards making up for the lack of a true negative control.
- CoastalCoder 5y agoIIRC from SCUBA diving, breathing pressurized normal air can result in nitrogen narcosis, at least while you're still under pressure. Not sure if there's a lingering effect afterwards, which IIUC is what we're talking about here.
- twic 5y agoOTOH, if there is, using that as a control would give you a nice big signal!
- LorenPechtel 5y agoBring the chamber pressure down slowly enough to decompress.
- Geee 5y agoWhy would you need placebo control for such study? You need placebo studies to isolate the effect, not for measuring the effect.
- spicybright 5y agoMany will brush it off as a bad paper, but there's always the risk of someone using this as evidence to give people false hope. Which is a pretty shitty thing to do in my opinion.
- agumonkey 5y agoWhat about a global somatic benefit ? Improving oxygen delivery, to an extent, should improve all cells function right ?
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y agoSure, it might help, and we can imagine reasons for it to work, but the point was that this experiment might not be good evidence for it working.
- hanselot 5y agoDr Shai Efrati seems to believe it's what allows salamanders to regenerate limbs. Having access to more oxygen allows generation of pluripotent stem cells (which apparently look for damage and repair said damage). For sure though, let the same people who thought tharanos was a good idea come and bash something that is at least feasibly something you could access relatively inexpensively, should you want to be anecdotal evidence.
- nhinck 5y agoHyperbaric treatment has been pushed for so many chronic conditions and I've never really seen it pan out. I wouldn't be too hopeful about this.
- sonicggg 5y agoOh man, if Edward Jenner, the father of vaccinology, was alive today, he would get crucified over his discovery of the smallpox vaccine. "What? Did you just scrape some cow's tits and inject fluid into a boy? No control? Where the ethics approval?" And that's probably in the Top 10 of largest advancements in medicine of all time. Luckily he did it all before the existence of armchair keyboard warriors.
- haltingproblem 5y agoEdward Jenner was hardly the father of Vaccinology. This method was long known in Indian sources. The best source concerning the Indian method of treatment of smallpox is a report by Dr. John Z. Holwell in 1767 for the College of Physicians in London. This report is an excellent source for understanding the mind of the Ayurvedic doctors of the eighteenth century. [1] [1] https://swarajyamag.com/books/smallpox https://swarajyamag.com/books/smallpox
- Apocryphon 5y agoIt sounds like he wasn't even the first among his contemporaries. But it is known for certain that in the years following 1770, at least six people in England and Germany (Sevel, Jensen, Jesty 1774, Rendall, Plett 1791) tested successfully the possibility of using the cowpox vaccine as an immunization for smallpox in humans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine#Early_vaccination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine#Early_vaccina... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2279376/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2279376/
- buck4roo 5y agoEvidence of variolation goes back to the 15th century https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variolation#China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variolation#China
- bserge 5y agoProbably not, since most people against it would be dead or never born.
- neuroma 5y agoI didn't see a Bonferroni adjustment either, would would suggest actively fishing for statistically significant differences