4 ms·

There will never be a lack of divisions the elites can foster in the populace. If you had told me that in the middle of a pandemic, people would politicize medi

by llampx 5y ago

There will never be a lack of divisions the elites can foster in the populace. If you had told me that in the middle of a pandemic, people would politicize medicinal measures and vaccinations, i would have laughed.

tehjoker 5y ago
We don't have to win over right-wingers, they're a lost cause. I think among the broad left, the contradictions of race and gender are healing slowly. For example, a black marxist professor told me that in the 1960s white people could not show up to a police brutality protest, but now the George Floyd protests were fully mixed race. The condition of the capitalist system is declining and more people are feeling it. By removing things the elites can point to, we narrow their ability to navigate. The right wing is turning to conspiracy and nationalism as they usually do. However, they are the minority of the country (the friends and family of the ownership class is necessarily smaller than the prolaterians), they just have the ability to do a LOT of damage.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  You are badly mistaken if you think the right wing is only, or even primarily, "the friends and family of the ownership class".
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    I did oversimplify sorry. There's a hard core of the right wing that has a class interest in their political beliefs (. There's also a mass base they've assembled out of the working class based on fascist ideas of nationalism, xenophobia, creating hierarchies of races, genders, etc that they believe they're superior to, and some kind of conviction that capitalism is either meritocratic or will give them personally a shot at the top. The key is for the working class right wing, these ideas are often against their material interest in either the short or long term and so they are a softer core that can be peeled away. Probably not with direct appeals, but by substantive action. Only about 30-40% of the country are convicted right wingers, somewhere between a minority and a super-minority of the population, and a reasonable fraction (guessing 5-10%) of them would be peeled away by a positive material change in their circumstances by a re-distributive economic policy.
- syshum 5y ago
  Wow.. Please leave your echo chamber.. Please
- the_lonely_road 5y ago
  Isn’t beloved white and left politician Bernie Sanders famous for a photo of him as a young adult being dragged away from an African American rights protest by police? I spent just a few seconds looking at photos of 1960’s police brutality photos on Google and see white people in most of them. https://www.google.com/search?q=1960%27s+police+brutality+protest&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=invx&sxsrf=AOaemvKRUwX1b4HIFDewuEKaiC5KWNkFQw:1633558632640&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjk-ZGQ6LbzAhUQSjABHSbwAk0Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=375&bih=553&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=1960%27s+police+brutality+pr... Good time to also point out that conservative voters make up something like 24-25% of the population and liberal voters roughly the same. Half the population doesn’t vote in general though the numbers are higher for presidential elections than your average election.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Reminds me of a great doc I saw on Kanopy last month about the goings on at Berkeley. Look like it may not be available any more, maybe other places. https://www.kanopy.com/product/berkeley-sixties https://www.kanopy.com/product/berkeley-sixties
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    That's pretty interesting in the photos. Will have to discuss with some friends. I believe the professor, but there might be subtle differences between the different kinds of protests. EDIT: Looking at some side-by-sides with the George Floyd protests, it seems apparent to me that while there were some non-black participants in the 1960s, the proportion of them significantly increased. https://www.google.com/search?q=george+floyd+protests&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1423&bih=741&ei=oWxfYa7GINvR5NoPz5mG-AE&ved=0ahUKEwjums_6pLnzAhXbKFkFHc-MAR8Q4dUDCAY&uact=5&oq=george+floyd+protests&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIICAAQgAQQsQMyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQ6BAgAEAM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAVCXA1iiHmDAH2gAcAB4AIABSYgBoQmSAQIyMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img#imgrc=jKfSb8zqWMvL6M https://www.google.com/search?q=george+floyd+protests&tbm=is...
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Communities of color are the least likely to be vaccinated and have good reason to distrust the medical establishment and the government. Call that politicization if you want but their reasons go back far beyond the start of this pandemic.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

by llampx 5y ago

tehjoker 5y ago

We don't have to win over right-wingers, they're a lost cause. I think among the broad left, the contradictions of race and gender are healing slowly. For example, a black marxist professor told me that in the 1960s white people could not show up to a police brutality protest, but now the George Floyd protests were fully mixed race. The condition of the capitalist system is declining and more people are feeling it. By removing things the elites can point to, we narrow their ability to navigate. The right wing is turning to conspiracy and nationalism as they usually do. However, they are the minority of the country (the friends and family of the ownership class is necessarily smaller than the prolaterians), they just have the ability to do a LOT of damage.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
You are badly mistaken if you think the right wing is only, or even primarily, "the friends and family of the ownership class".
- tehjoker 5y ago
  I did oversimplify sorry. There's a hard core of the right wing that has a class interest in their political beliefs (. There's also a mass base they've assembled out of the working class based on fascist ideas of nationalism, xenophobia, creating hierarchies of races, genders, etc that they believe they're superior to, and some kind of conviction that capitalism is either meritocratic or will give them personally a shot at the top. The key is for the working class right wing, these ideas are often against their material interest in either the short or long term and so they are a softer core that can be peeled away. Probably not with direct appeals, but by substantive action. Only about 30-40% of the country are convicted right wingers, somewhere between a minority and a super-minority of the population, and a reasonable fraction (guessing 5-10%) of them would be peeled away by a positive material change in their circumstances by a re-distributive economic policy.
syshum 5y ago
Wow.. Please leave your echo chamber.. Please
the_lonely_road 5y ago
Isn’t beloved white and left politician Bernie Sanders famous for a photo of him as a young adult being dragged away from an African American rights protest by police? I spent just a few seconds looking at photos of 1960’s police brutality photos on Google and see white people in most of them. https://www.google.com/search?q=1960%27s+police+brutality+protest&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=invx&sxsrf=AOaemvKRUwX1b4HIFDewuEKaiC5KWNkFQw:1633558632640&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjk-ZGQ6LbzAhUQSjABHSbwAk0Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=375&bih=553&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=1960%27s+police+brutality+pr... Good time to also point out that conservative voters make up something like 24-25% of the population and liberal voters roughly the same. Half the population doesn’t vote in general though the numbers are higher for presidential elections than your average election.
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  Reminds me of a great doc I saw on Kanopy last month about the goings on at Berkeley. Look like it may not be available any more, maybe other places. https://www.kanopy.com/product/berkeley-sixties https://www.kanopy.com/product/berkeley-sixties
- tehjoker 5y ago
  That's pretty interesting in the photos. Will have to discuss with some friends. I believe the professor, but there might be subtle differences between the different kinds of protests. EDIT: Looking at some side-by-sides with the George Floyd protests, it seems apparent to me that while there were some non-black participants in the 1960s, the proportion of them significantly increased. https://www.google.com/search?q=george+floyd+protests&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1423&bih=741&ei=oWxfYa7GINvR5NoPz5mG-AE&ved=0ahUKEwjums_6pLnzAhXbKFkFHc-MAR8Q4dUDCAY&uact=5&oq=george+floyd+protests&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIICAAQgAQQsQMyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQ6BAgAEAM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAVCXA1iiHmDAH2gAcAB4AIABSYgBoQmSAQIyMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img#imgrc=jKfSb8zqWMvL6M https://www.google.com/search?q=george+floyd+protests&tbm=is...

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Communities of color are the least likely to be vaccinated and have good reason to distrust the medical establishment and the government. Call that politicization if you want but their reasons go back far beyond the start of this pandemic.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]