3 ms·

What a load of nonsense, autism is a horrible thing that should be entirely eliminated if possible. An autist probably will never be a salesman, for instance, w

What a load of nonsense, autism is a horrible thing that should be entirely eliminated if possible. An autist probably will never be a salesman, for instance, we should make that not the case if we can because otherwise those opportunitues will stay off limits because of some peoples birth. Then there are the more severe cases where people cant speak and care for themselves. Thats not a society issue, thats a birth defect and working to fix it is good.

nicoburns 5y ago
> An autist probably will never be a salesman, for instance Good? We'd probably be better off with fewer salesmen in the world.
- thepasswordis 5y ago
  So what, deprive these kids of the possibility of choosing something? Why not give them the choice? Let them become adults, and if they want to later inflict neurological damage upon themselves, then fine. But don't neglect them treatment.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Autistic people also often have capabilities that neurotypical people don't. So treating them would also be denying them opportunities. I think any treatment would have to be taken on a case by case basis. This particular one sounds like it doesn't work anyway.
    - thepasswordis 5y ago
      Blind people also have capabilities that sighted people don’t have. Give the kids the treatment. If they want to choose later in life to blind themselves, fine, they’re adults. Don’t make them part of a crusade that they didn’t consent to. I say this as somebody who had several major surgeries as a child to save my eyesight.
      - shkkmo 5y ago
        > I say this as somebody who had several major surgeries as a child to save my eyesight. The moral calculus here depends on how severe the impairment is and the potential risks / harms associated with the treatments. At one end of the impairment/risk ratio, it is certainly ethical. Somewhere in the middle, I think you need to obtain the minor's consent. At the other end the treament isn't ever ethical ever to conduct on a minor. What if the "sight saving" treatment has a high risk of them losing their sight at an older age when developing the abilities to navigate as a blind person are harder? The issue here is an ongoing debate about which ASD differences are impairments (and about the severity.) and which are just stigmatized. I think to make this determination ethically you MUST listen to the range of opinions from adults who faced similar situations. If there isn't a clear consensus, I think we should be hesitant to impose treatment without consent.
        thepasswordis 5y ago
        Is it "horrific" or comparable to gay conversion therapy to make sight-saving treatments available?
- collegeburner 5y ago
  I picked it as a single role that requires lots of customer interaction and social cues, it could be lots of stuff, customer service or others. That was just 1 example.
aspieandproud 5y ago
Remove yourself from the gene pool asap (ideally also from society).
gremlinsinc 5y ago
As an autist who's done sales (yes, I hate it, wouldn't ever choose that career), this is bullshit. I have adhd(inattentive, formerly ADD) and am high level on the ASD specrtum. Sure, my life gets fucked up a lot by my brain over analyzing things, or hyper focusing or just not focusing on anything at all, and I miss a lot of queues from loved ones, associates, etc.. but I also have movments of genius that everyone else seems to lack, I have passions in things and see stuff others miss. When I'm on my ADHD meds, I mostly function okay, my executive function even works a large portion of the time. Could I be more successful? Certainly, but do I feel like I'm missing out on opportunities because of it? Nah, not at all. I also didn't know I had ADHD or Autism till i was 38, I just basically learned to cope in life as a normie, but learning has given me just some extra tools to become a bit better at coping through the hard stuff in life.
- collegeburner 5y ago
  Ok Im glad you were able to do that and that you can still have a good life. If we could fix it though, more opportunities would be available, maybe you'd have enjoyed it and could have it as a career you liked. There are also a lot of other people not so high functioning that literally just couldnt, and others who can't even live on their own as adults. Maybe you dont need a treatment like this but there are people where it would change their lives.
  - gremlinsinc 5y ago
    So you're saying society needs more Salesmen, less Einstein's and Alan Turings? Wonder how ww2 would've fared without them.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    And what if in the process if making everyone "salesman material" we divert a potential "weirdo genius" from making a much larger contribution? Diversity is important and valuable. I highly doubt that ASD (and our cognitive diversity in general) is an evolutionary mistake. That isn't to say that we shouldn't make tools and treatments available, but it absolutely does mean we shouldn't insist on "fixing" everyone with ASD.
0xy 5y ago
The most successful salesperson in the world Mark Zuckerberg has some form of mild autism, in my opinion (which is shared by some Facebook employees and on autism forums). He sold the world and the investment community that he's selling communication while he's really selling digital crack cocaine.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  Pretty sure Elon Musk is ASD too, I'm ASD (slightly, self-diagnosed my wife has ADHD-C, I WAS diagnosed with ADHD-I 3 years ago, and after MANY youtube channel watches of ASD and ADD/ADHD stuff, and being told by 3 separate friends (all w/ ASD) that if they've got it, so do I, I just accepted it).. . It does make sense, I ramble often, on a topic and I can get so focused on one subject that I neglect everything else for weeks, and sure that's a sign of ADHD, but it crosses over, my brother has it too, and I think my wife does as well, cause there's a female YT channel on it, and she and the host are like twins (behaviorially)... I'm not a fan of Zuck or Musk (used to be a fan, but he's just a self-absorbed rich kid who got lucky because he had money to begin with), but I do see ASD as a two edged sword it can lead to greatness (I have brilliant ideas) or failure (I have fear of launching, because I'm very sensitive to criticism, and rejection) .. but having access to money makes fear of failure less because well you can afford better market testing, and hire people to help fill in the gaps... TLDR: Not a fan of elon/zuck, both probably are ASD, so am I, my take is it didn't make them successful, it may have contributed, but it definitely didn't hurt them either, but people w/ ASD often get paired as being like the guy on the "Good Doctor" and I hate that, many w/ ASD you can't even tell until they tell you or you work in close quarters w/ them for awhile... it's not very pronounced on a lot of people and most programmers probably are on spectrum, it's a good career choice for us (almost perfect)... I'm one.
lilyball 5y ago
Lots of people won't ever be suited to being a salesperson. This is a horrible justification for attempting to eliminate neurodiversity.
elliekelly 5y ago
I have a friend who has autism and he’s a fantastic salesperson because he just takes potential buyers at their word. You’re not the market for a car? Cool. Give him a call when you are and in the meantime let him know if you have any questions. And he genuinely means it. That car is too expensive? Well what’s your budget? He’ll tell you right away whether he can make the numbers work with that model or he’ll show you the next best thing you can buy for that price range. Is he the stereotypical slick sales guy? Not at all. But he sells lots of cars because he’s really good at what he does and, more importantly, customers really like working with him.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  To take your argument even further: It is good to have more than one type of salesperson. Some customers like/respond to one approach and some don't. Having a cognitively diverse salesforce should make your sales unit stronger and more flexible. Monocultures are fragile and inflexible.

nicoburns 5y ago

> An autist probably will never be a salesman, for instance Good? We'd probably be better off with fewer salesmen in the world.

thepasswordis 5y ago
So what, deprive these kids of the possibility of choosing something? Why not give them the choice? Let them become adults, and if they want to later inflict neurological damage upon themselves, then fine. But don't neglect them treatment.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Autistic people also often have capabilities that neurotypical people don't. So treating them would also be denying them opportunities. I think any treatment would have to be taken on a case by case basis. This particular one sounds like it doesn't work anyway.
  - thepasswordis 5y ago
    Blind people also have capabilities that sighted people don’t have. Give the kids the treatment. If they want to choose later in life to blind themselves, fine, they’re adults. Don’t make them part of a crusade that they didn’t consent to. I say this as somebody who had several major surgeries as a child to save my eyesight.
    - shkkmo 5y ago
      > I say this as somebody who had several major surgeries as a child to save my eyesight. The moral calculus here depends on how severe the impairment is and the potential risks / harms associated with the treatments. At one end of the impairment/risk ratio, it is certainly ethical. Somewhere in the middle, I think you need to obtain the minor's consent. At the other end the treament isn't ever ethical ever to conduct on a minor. What if the "sight saving" treatment has a high risk of them losing their sight at an older age when developing the abilities to navigate as a blind person are harder? The issue here is an ongoing debate about which ASD differences are impairments (and about the severity.) and which are just stigmatized. I think to make this determination ethically you MUST listen to the range of opinions from adults who faced similar situations. If there isn't a clear consensus, I think we should be hesitant to impose treatment without consent.
      - thepasswordis 5y ago
        Is it "horrific" or comparable to gay conversion therapy to make sight-saving treatments available?
collegeburner 5y ago
I picked it as a single role that requires lots of customer interaction and social cues, it could be lots of stuff, customer service or others. That was just 1 example.

aspieandproud 5y ago

Remove yourself from the gene pool asap (ideally also from society).

gremlinsinc 5y ago

As an autist who's done sales (yes, I hate it, wouldn't ever choose that career), this is bullshit. I have adhd(inattentive, formerly ADD) and am high level on the ASD specrtum. Sure, my life gets fucked up a lot by my brain over analyzing things, or hyper focusing or just not focusing on anything at all, and I miss a lot of queues from loved ones, associates, etc.. but I also have movments of genius that everyone else seems to lack, I have passions in things and see stuff others miss. When I'm on my ADHD meds, I mostly function okay, my executive function even works a large portion of the time. Could I be more successful? Certainly, but do I feel like I'm missing out on opportunities because of it? Nah, not at all. I also didn't know I had ADHD or Autism till i was 38, I just basically learned to cope in life as a normie, but learning has given me just some extra tools to become a bit better at coping through the hard stuff in life.

collegeburner 5y ago
Ok Im glad you were able to do that and that you can still have a good life. If we could fix it though, more opportunities would be available, maybe you'd have enjoyed it and could have it as a career you liked. There are also a lot of other people not so high functioning that literally just couldnt, and others who can't even live on their own as adults. Maybe you dont need a treatment like this but there are people where it would change their lives.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  So you're saying society needs more Salesmen, less Einstein's and Alan Turings? Wonder how ww2 would've fared without them.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  And what if in the process if making everyone "salesman material" we divert a potential "weirdo genius" from making a much larger contribution? Diversity is important and valuable. I highly doubt that ASD (and our cognitive diversity in general) is an evolutionary mistake. That isn't to say that we shouldn't make tools and treatments available, but it absolutely does mean we shouldn't insist on "fixing" everyone with ASD.

0xy 5y ago

The most successful salesperson in the world Mark Zuckerberg has some form of mild autism, in my opinion (which is shared by some Facebook employees and on autism forums). He sold the world and the investment community that he's selling communication while he's really selling digital crack cocaine.

gremlinsinc 5y ago
Pretty sure Elon Musk is ASD too, I'm ASD (slightly, self-diagnosed my wife has ADHD-C, I WAS diagnosed with ADHD-I 3 years ago, and after MANY youtube channel watches of ASD and ADD/ADHD stuff, and being told by 3 separate friends (all w/ ASD) that if they've got it, so do I, I just accepted it).. . It does make sense, I ramble often, on a topic and I can get so focused on one subject that I neglect everything else for weeks, and sure that's a sign of ADHD, but it crosses over, my brother has it too, and I think my wife does as well, cause there's a female YT channel on it, and she and the host are like twins (behaviorially)... I'm not a fan of Zuck or Musk (used to be a fan, but he's just a self-absorbed rich kid who got lucky because he had money to begin with), but I do see ASD as a two edged sword it can lead to greatness (I have brilliant ideas) or failure (I have fear of launching, because I'm very sensitive to criticism, and rejection) .. but having access to money makes fear of failure less because well you can afford better market testing, and hire people to help fill in the gaps... TLDR: Not a fan of elon/zuck, both probably are ASD, so am I, my take is it didn't make them successful, it may have contributed, but it definitely didn't hurt them either, but people w/ ASD often get paired as being like the guy on the "Good Doctor" and I hate that, many w/ ASD you can't even tell until they tell you or you work in close quarters w/ them for awhile... it's not very pronounced on a lot of people and most programmers probably are on spectrum, it's a good career choice for us (almost perfect)... I'm one.

lilyball 5y ago

Lots of people won't ever be suited to being a salesperson. This is a horrible justification for attempting to eliminate neurodiversity.

elliekelly 5y ago

I have a friend who has autism and he’s a fantastic salesperson because he just takes potential buyers at their word. You’re not the market for a car? Cool. Give him a call when you are and in the meantime let him know if you have any questions. And he genuinely means it. That car is too expensive? Well what’s your budget? He’ll tell you right away whether he can make the numbers work with that model or he’ll show you the next best thing you can buy for that price range. Is he the stereotypical slick sales guy? Not at all. But he sells lots of cars because he’s really good at what he does and, more importantly, customers really like working with him.

shkkmo 5y ago
To take your argument even further: It is good to have more than one type of salesperson. Some customers like/respond to one approach and some don't. Having a cognitively diverse salesforce should make your sales unit stronger and more flexible. Monocultures are fragile and inflexible.