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> And the gap between Caucasians and African Americans also continued to grow On the graph: White - 155k Black - 130k Asian - 156k Is it time to talk about t
by dudul 5y ago
> And the gap between Caucasians and African Americans also continued to grow
On the graph:
White - 155k
Black - 130k
Asian - 156k
Is it time to talk about the gap between Blacks and Asians instead?
- project2501a 5y agoIt is time to talk about unionization that would throw all these bullshit inequalities out the window.
- DaveExeter 5y agoUnionization would throw so much out the window!
- gruez 5y ago...by replacing meritocracy with seniority?
- b20000 5y agowhat meritocracy? are you saying that passing leetcode interviews means you know your job?
- jjcon 5y agoPlenty of us not in the Bay Area monoculture have never been subjected to leetcode type interviews, I know I never have.
- emidln 5y agoYou can also tell employers "no". I did it in the last round and of 6 companies that tried a leetcode-style interview, only 1 ended talks. I received offers from the other 5 despite not giving them a bullshit timed algo interview.
- b20000 5y agothat's great, I developed multiple succesful products and have 25 years of experience and told several "no" recently and they all decided to not interview me.
- mbrodersen 5y agoI am happy to hear that. Developers have a lot more power to change things than they realise. If all developers simply refused to do leet code style interviews, employees would very quickly stop doing them.
- b20000 5y agoexactly, this
- Foobar8568 5y agoIt's already the case in most companies.
- BurningFrog 5y agoThat's why it's good we can switch companies!
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y agoIf you honestly believe that companies operate as meritocracies I have a bridge to sell you. Nepotism still runs rampant, attractive people get more job offers, promotions, and pay, networking still trounces experience and credentials when it comes to finding work, and credentials themselves are largely about wealth signaling. Seniority is at least an objective measure, even if it is a terrible one. Besides which, no one says that's how a union has to work.
- the_only_law 5y ago> attractive people get more job offers Hey, I need a new webcam for interviews because this 720p can’t seem to get decent lighting really does a number ob me there.
- b20000 5y agowhy is this downvoted?
- mrkstu 5y agoBecause it would just replace one set of inequalities with a different set?
- b20000 5y agoso how would it become worse than the current situation?
- wheelinsupial 5y agoIn a really extreme example of union membership, it relies on a lottery system. The lottery tickets are only given to current members. The current members give this to family members or sell the ticket for tens of thousands of dollars. The union can post jobs internally and they have to evaluate internal candidates first. Some places I’ve worked even have it set up so that internal union members are sent to school for training before they will open it up to external hiring. Credentialing. Union can enforce specific credentials that would then keep people otherwise qualified out. I think these (which are scenarios I’ve seen) are worse than the current system where if you have the skills and can demonstrate them, then you can get a high paying job.
- b20000 5y agothe current system does not guarantee a high paying job if you have the skills and can demonstrate them. it requires that you go through timed coding tests which are unrelated to what you will be doing, and which you have to study for first, despite already having done all that in college, and despite that college possibly being ivy league, and despite having years of experience and released succesful products.
- tehjoker 5y agoThey're not bullshit, they're secondary contradictions to the primary contradiction of bourgeoisie vs proletarians. The secondary contradictions do affect real people and are a great way to rally people together by showing solidarity to each other.
- mbrodersen 5y agoUnions work well in countries like Germany. I have always wondered why unions failed so badly in the US? I assume corruption was the major problem?
- victorhooi 5y agoThis really does frustrate me - that racism is usually seen in the spectrum of the "whites vs blacks" narrative - but Asian-Americans are usually disregarded, or it's not "real" racism. Sure, they don't have the same pay disparity as blacks (although there is still inequality within the cohort itself) - however, that's largely been a result of higher educational attainment, and the work ethic of Asians - and ignores the barriers they've had to overcome to get to that level. However, there is still a level of casual racism - and even in the last year, a lot of anti-Asian assaults across America. Also, this is an anecdote, in many places I've worked at, it's very common that management and above are mostly white males, but all the Asians are non-management. I've wondered how much of that is due to some cultural issue, versus how much is due to some bias in the system.
- endisneigh 5y ago> and the work ethic of Asians - and ignores the barriers they've had to overcome to get to that level. Could you elaborate?
- bradleyjg 5y agoIf whites have higher pay it’s because of discrimination but if Asians have higher pay it’s overcoming discrimination. Is your model of the world falsifiable?
- 908B64B197 5y agoIt's interesting to see the achievement gap despite policies at top institutions that are increasingly trying to get rid of objective measurement, and instead focus on "holistic" approach. Lowell HS, here in SF, is a prime example [0], but also the lawsuits brought against Ivy League institutions [1] [2] [3] [0] https://www.sfgate.com/education/article/San-Francisco-Lowell-High-ends-merit-admissions-15939248.php https://www.sfgate.com/education/article/San-Francisco-Lowel... [1] https://spectator.org/asian-discrimination-sat-requirements/ https://spectator.org/asian-discrimination-sat-requirements/ [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/13/yale-illegally-discriminates-against-white-and-asian-students-justice-department-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/13/yale-illegally-discriminates... [3] https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/07/living/feat-mindy-kaling-brother-affirmative-action/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/07/living/feat-mindy-kaling-brot...
- didibus 5y ago> Is it time to talk about the gap between Blacks and Asians instead? The problem isn't so much what value you put on the groups, as the gap itself. Think of it more generically: gap<Race, Salary> Anytime you'd see a big gap, it would be cause for concern, because we value that similar work should provide similar compensation no matter your race. And if you see that the gap is caused by the distribution of the type of work, for example, raceX is more likely to do work that pays more than raceZ. Well that's also an issue, because we value equal opportunity between races, and the assumption is if opportunity was truly equal, the data should not show a big gap in the choices of work made between races, especially for highly paid professions. At least it shouldn't show that without a clear explanation as to why that might be, which we don't have today. I understand 100% where you come from with that comment, it can get annoying to feel personally blamed for inequality, where the real blame could be historical, or accidental, but I'd only say to try and be the better man, and get past that, because focusing on the "blame" both as a recipient or activist wanting to lash it out is counterproductive, keep the focus on the issue and discussions of solutions I think is the healthy path forward for everyone. And you're right, articles like this one could also try harder at that.
- mathverse 5y agoWhites not born in rich anglo countries are still perceived as privileged despite a lot of them growing up in much harder conditions than your average black person in tech.
- tentakull 5y ago[flagged]