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You’re talking about something else. Do we expect money-making companies to be the ones to war against authoritarian regimes? Do we not also expect companies

You’re talking about something else. Do we expect money-making companies to be the ones to war against authoritarian regimes? Do we not also expect companies to obey the laws of the lands in which they conduct business? You can’t just say screw it to GDPR and expect to continue to be able to conduct business in the EU.

MrStonedOne 5y ago
Apple didn't have to lock users out of installing "unapproved" apps on their own. That isn't for the user's benefit and isn't necessary for apple to have a curated app store.
- dwaite 5y ago
  What would the alternative be - the method of installation is the App Store, and Apple's compliance was removing the public and private presence from the App Store within that country.
  - oauea 5y ago
    Just allow sideloading. It's not hard to not block that. But apple is hell-bent on collecting every cent they can, so of course all app installations must go through their walled garden where they can take their 30%. Anti-consumer behavior at its finest.
    - mehrdada 5y ago
      Sideloading is allowed with a free developer account.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
        Not really. You also need a computer running XCode (i.e. a mac), you'll need to follow the instructions out of 9 rather not obvious pounts and you'll also need to build be app you want to install. Oh, and of course you won't be able to use push notifications, because Apple.
        simonklitj 5y ago
        Not true anymore! You can sideload .ipa's using AltStore without Xcode and without the source code.
        oauea 5y ago
        How? There must be some restrictions or this would be HUGE news and Epic would rejoice. edit: the apps expire after 1 week and need to be constantly reinstalled. This is abusing an exploit in apple's walled garden that will surely be "fixed".
        simonklitj 5y ago
        They’re not abusing an exploit. You might be able to argue that they’re abusing a policy. The fact is that you are allowed to sign apps with a free dev account, the cert will just expire after a week. AltStore’s been around since 2019, so they’ve had ample time to “fix” it. Edit: they do not need to be reinstalled. With AltStore the cert update is automatic and wireless (your computer handles it and sends the updated cert to your phone). You will never notice their expiration, and never need to reinstall, unless you’re away from your computer for more than a week.
        oauea 5y ago
        Yeah, I don't think I'm going to be able to explain all that to my users. Some of them don't even have a computer.
        mehrdada 5y ago
        You are changing the goalposts here. You don’t just want sideloading. You also want an easy way to do that at scale. However that’s not an obviously beneficial trade-off for the average user. The point is as the device owner you have the ability to run code on your own device outside App Store without paying Apple. To be able to effectively distribute such code to the average iOS user who may not understand how to deploy unsigned app and the potential implications of it is a different story and one that you could argue is designed to protect the layperson against themselves (contrast this with users running random .exe from emails on Windows).
- simonklitj 5y ago
  They do allow this with a free developer account. It’s not easy-easy, but tools to do it pretty effortlessly exist (AltStore).
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
I do expect the company that sells hardware to their users to allow users to decide which apps to run on sold devices. Currently, Apple is behaving as if still owns those devices and decides which apps to run. Precisely this lock-in created by apple is actively exploited by authoritarian regimes. If Apple will allow third-party app stores or direct installation of applications on devices, dictatorships will lose this capability to harm Apple's customers. But of course we all know that this policy was never intended to protect users, it was to protect Apple and their appstore monopoly, which also allows Apple to extort developers of 30% of all of their revenues by forcing them into Apple's payment services. Finally, the world has had enough of this and starts to fight back against it.
- lovich 5y ago
  > If Apple will allow third-party app stores or direct installation of applications on devices, dictatorships will lose this capability to harm Apple's customers. As someone who switched from the Samsung note line to iPhone, the only freedom I felt from the ability to install other apps was the freedom to deal with all the unrecoverable crap ware. There’s other phones out there with greater freedom than the iPhone, people are aware of them, and are still choosing the iPhone. The curation is a benefit in that I have a corporation with thousands of employees working to prevent the other corporations from making my user experience worse. If the curation goes away I’d probably switch to a cheaper phone next upgrade and I’m sure apples aware of that
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    You are not living in an authoritarian country. That's why you think that the shiny chains that you wear are just a nice decoration, because they were never used to strangle you.
    - lovich 5y ago
      If I live in an authoritarian country then the chains are coming either way

MrStonedOne 5y ago

Apple didn't have to lock users out of installing "unapproved" apps on their own. That isn't for the user's benefit and isn't necessary for apple to have a curated app store.

dwaite 5y ago
What would the alternative be - the method of installation is the App Store, and Apple's compliance was removing the public and private presence from the App Store within that country.
- oauea 5y ago
  Just allow sideloading. It's not hard to not block that. But apple is hell-bent on collecting every cent they can, so of course all app installations must go through their walled garden where they can take their 30%. Anti-consumer behavior at its finest.
  - mehrdada 5y ago
    Sideloading is allowed with a free developer account.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      Not really. You also need a computer running XCode (i.e. a mac), you'll need to follow the instructions out of 9 rather not obvious pounts and you'll also need to build be app you want to install. Oh, and of course you won't be able to use push notifications, because Apple.
      - simonklitj 5y ago
        Not true anymore! You can sideload .ipa's using AltStore without Xcode and without the source code.
        oauea 5y ago
        How? There must be some restrictions or this would be HUGE news and Epic would rejoice. edit: the apps expire after 1 week and need to be constantly reinstalled. This is abusing an exploit in apple's walled garden that will surely be "fixed".
        simonklitj 5y ago
        They’re not abusing an exploit. You might be able to argue that they’re abusing a policy. The fact is that you are allowed to sign apps with a free dev account, the cert will just expire after a week. AltStore’s been around since 2019, so they’ve had ample time to “fix” it. Edit: they do not need to be reinstalled. With AltStore the cert update is automatic and wireless (your computer handles it and sends the updated cert to your phone). You will never notice their expiration, and never need to reinstall, unless you’re away from your computer for more than a week.
        oauea 5y ago
        Yeah, I don't think I'm going to be able to explain all that to my users. Some of them don't even have a computer.
        mehrdada 5y ago
        You are changing the goalposts here. You don’t just want sideloading. You also want an easy way to do that at scale. However that’s not an obviously beneficial trade-off for the average user. The point is as the device owner you have the ability to run code on your own device outside App Store without paying Apple. To be able to effectively distribute such code to the average iOS user who may not understand how to deploy unsigned app and the potential implications of it is a different story and one that you could argue is designed to protect the layperson against themselves (contrast this with users running random .exe from emails on Windows).
simonklitj 5y ago
They do allow this with a free developer account. It’s not easy-easy, but tools to do it pretty effortlessly exist (AltStore).

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

I do expect the company that sells hardware to their users to allow users to decide which apps to run on sold devices. Currently, Apple is behaving as if still owns those devices and decides which apps to run. Precisely this lock-in created by apple is actively exploited by authoritarian regimes. If Apple will allow third-party app stores or direct installation of applications on devices, dictatorships will lose this capability to harm Apple's customers. But of course we all know that this policy was never intended to protect users, it was to protect Apple and their appstore monopoly, which also allows Apple to extort developers of 30% of all of their revenues by forcing them into Apple's payment services. Finally, the world has had enough of this and starts to fight back against it.

lovich 5y ago
> If Apple will allow third-party app stores or direct installation of applications on devices, dictatorships will lose this capability to harm Apple's customers. As someone who switched from the Samsung note line to iPhone, the only freedom I felt from the ability to install other apps was the freedom to deal with all the unrecoverable crap ware. There’s other phones out there with greater freedom than the iPhone, people are aware of them, and are still choosing the iPhone. The curation is a benefit in that I have a corporation with thousands of employees working to prevent the other corporations from making my user experience worse. If the curation goes away I’d probably switch to a cheaper phone next upgrade and I’m sure apples aware of that
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  You are not living in an authoritarian country. That's why you think that the shiny chains that you wear are just a nice decoration, because they were never used to strangle you.
  - lovich 5y ago
    If I live in an authoritarian country then the chains are coming either way