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Scandinavia, while not exactly a nightmare, seems like the opposite of the American dream to me. In Scandinavia, you have the radical lack of privacy you just

Scandinavia, while not exactly a nightmare, seems like the opposite of the American dream to me. In Scandinavia, you have the radical lack of privacy you just mentioned as a feature (!!!) as well as eye-watering taxes. Now, in the States, the government spies on you, but at least they don’t publish their findings.

Ekaros 5y ago
On other hand we have other sorts of privacy. Like secrecy of correspondence meaning that for example my employer can't look at my mail without extremely good reason. Even with my employer my emails are mine and only mine.
- FredPret 5y ago
  While that is a very good thing, I'll take lower taxes over that any day. Every 1% of taxes you save compounds mightily over a lifetime's stock market investing. Full disclosure: I live in neither Scandinavia nor the States.
coliveira 5y ago
If everyone is paying the same taxes, this suddenly is not a problem! It really is a problem only when some people pay a lot of taxes and others pay close to nothing.
- FredPret 5y ago
  You mean like how the top 10% pays 71% of the taxes and the bottom 10% are net receivers of government money?
  - i_haz_rabies 5y ago
    That seems like it lands in the distribution ballpark the comment above was referring to, yes. The poorest 10% not paying very much in taxes is a feature of the system. And assuming your figures are correct, that 71% might look like a lot until you consider that the marginal tax rate for the very rich is very, very low in the United States compared to other developed countries, or even the United States prior to the Reagan administration.
    - FredPret 5y ago
      By what logic does that imply that the States should raise taxes on the rich? The States are doing so much better than the rest of the world economically that we should follow the American example, not vice versa.
      - i_haz_rabies 5y ago
        It implies that there's way, way too much wealth in the top 10% if the bottom 90% is only supplying 29% of the tax revenue. I don't think too many people, at least in other developed countries, are looking at the United States and thinking "wow, I wish my country was more like the United States." Usually such comparisons are made to the Scandinavian countries.
        FredPret 5y ago
        A statement like “too much wealth in population group x” can only come from someone with utopian ideas about how society “ought” to be structured, especially since population group x seems to be the source of this wealth. What moral system informed these utopian ideas? Why does everyone have an obligation to subscribe to it? If the rest of the world wants to hand arbitrary taxation power to some bureaucrats in pursuit of their moral ideal, let them have at it.
        i_haz_rabies 5y ago
        What alternative is there to utopian ideas? Status quo? It's not working for most people anymore. I'm not saying we should radically change society, but if Jeff Bezos and Amazon aren't paying taxes, there is something wrong and it should be fixed.
        FredPret 5y ago
        It IS working for most people. Beautifully so. Just look at some graphs showing essentially any economic metric from almost any nation for the past 100 or even 20 years. Chances are, it’s not only heading in the right direction, but at an exponential rate. Regarding ideals: they’re usually great to have personally, but not so great anymore if others have to pay for your grand visions. Regarding Bezos and Amazon: of course they have to pay tax, everyone should. But my sense is that taxes are far higher than they need to be - there’s an entire class of unionized middle-class bureacrats and government suppliers that add uncertain value at best.
- ameister14 5y ago
  Does Norway have a regressive tax system?

Ekaros 5y ago

On other hand we have other sorts of privacy. Like secrecy of correspondence meaning that for example my employer can't look at my mail without extremely good reason. Even with my employer my emails are mine and only mine.

FredPret 5y ago
While that is a very good thing, I'll take lower taxes over that any day. Every 1% of taxes you save compounds mightily over a lifetime's stock market investing. Full disclosure: I live in neither Scandinavia nor the States.

coliveira 5y ago

If everyone is paying the same taxes, this suddenly is not a problem! It really is a problem only when some people pay a lot of taxes and others pay close to nothing.

FredPret 5y ago
You mean like how the top 10% pays 71% of the taxes and the bottom 10% are net receivers of government money?
- i_haz_rabies 5y ago
  That seems like it lands in the distribution ballpark the comment above was referring to, yes. The poorest 10% not paying very much in taxes is a feature of the system. And assuming your figures are correct, that 71% might look like a lot until you consider that the marginal tax rate for the very rich is very, very low in the United States compared to other developed countries, or even the United States prior to the Reagan administration.
  - FredPret 5y ago
    By what logic does that imply that the States should raise taxes on the rich? The States are doing so much better than the rest of the world economically that we should follow the American example, not vice versa.
    - i_haz_rabies 5y ago
      It implies that there's way, way too much wealth in the top 10% if the bottom 90% is only supplying 29% of the tax revenue. I don't think too many people, at least in other developed countries, are looking at the United States and thinking "wow, I wish my country was more like the United States." Usually such comparisons are made to the Scandinavian countries.
      - FredPret 5y ago
        A statement like “too much wealth in population group x” can only come from someone with utopian ideas about how society “ought” to be structured, especially since population group x seems to be the source of this wealth. What moral system informed these utopian ideas? Why does everyone have an obligation to subscribe to it? If the rest of the world wants to hand arbitrary taxation power to some bureaucrats in pursuit of their moral ideal, let them have at it.
        i_haz_rabies 5y ago
        What alternative is there to utopian ideas? Status quo? It's not working for most people anymore. I'm not saying we should radically change society, but if Jeff Bezos and Amazon aren't paying taxes, there is something wrong and it should be fixed.
        FredPret 5y ago
        It IS working for most people. Beautifully so. Just look at some graphs showing essentially any economic metric from almost any nation for the past 100 or even 20 years. Chances are, it’s not only heading in the right direction, but at an exponential rate. Regarding ideals: they’re usually great to have personally, but not so great anymore if others have to pay for your grand visions. Regarding Bezos and Amazon: of course they have to pay tax, everyone should. But my sense is that taxes are far higher than they need to be - there’s an entire class of unionized middle-class bureacrats and government suppliers that add uncertain value at best.
ameister14 5y ago
Does Norway have a regressive tax system?