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> I also doubt contactless payment would have the adoption it has among iOS users without Apple’s branding and marketing push. Maybe in the US. But hear in the

> I also doubt contactless payment would have the adoption it has among iOS users without Apple’s branding and marketing push. Maybe in the US. But hear in the EU contactless was a thing a decade before Apple Pay came along, and just about every merchant and bank card supported it for at least 5 years before Apple Pay. Indeed I would say that Apple Pay wouldn’t have the adoption it does in the EU, if it wasn't for contactless providing all the infrastructure needed to power it. A point you can provide evidence for my comparing Apple Pay adoption in the US vs EU. On your privacy point, you realise that banks get same amount of data about a transaction via the card networks, regardless of whether or not you use Apple Pay. The only party that looses any info is the merchant.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> banks get same amount of data about a transaction via the card networks, regardless of whether or not you use Apple Pay I don’t know the situation in the EU, given the privacy laws, but in the U.S., banks’ enhanced data from app-based contactless payments (on Android, obviously) sell at a premium to those through a scrubbed channel. The app picks up a lot more information, e.g. signals, location, device, clipboard, et cetera, than the payment transcript.
- avianlyric 5y ago
  Those apps for the most part don’t really exist in the EU. I suspect a big reason is due the the hard caps on card network interchange fees. So the size of the transaction pie is smaller, and banks get a larger proportion of the pie than their US counterparts. In the US theres a very clear financial incentive for banks to try and cut out card networks, and claim their portion of the fees. The hard part then is convincing merchants to invest the time and money needed to support these new payment systems. Hence the significant carrot of providing customer data to merchants. In the EU, the banks wouldn’t make a significant saving by cutting out the card networks. So it not clear how they would fund the incentives needed to get merchants to support their new systems. All of those provides a barrier to bank payment apps (for C2B payments, C2C payments all happen through normal bank apps), before you even bring privacy into the equation, which just makes a bank payment system even less appealing to merchants. Having said all of that, open banking in the EU is creating new opportunities for merchants and banks to skip card networks, especially for online payments. So it'll be interesting to see how that ecosystem evolves over time.
cnst 5y ago
Exactly. Perhaps they went with the 8 card limit because they didn't expect that it'll be as popular in the US, and you don't hear that many complaints about it because: * People in Europe who use contactless all the time rarely have as many cards as some Americans. * Americans who have that many cards rarely use contactless. Perhaps I am an outlier for actually using all my cards contactless.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> banks get same amount of data about a transaction via the card networks, regardless of whether or not you use Apple Pay I don’t know the situation in the EU, given the privacy laws, but in the U.S., banks’ enhanced data from app-based contactless payments (on Android, obviously) sell at a premium to those through a scrubbed channel. The app picks up a lot more information, e.g. signals, location, device, clipboard, et cetera, than the payment transcript.

avianlyric 5y ago
Those apps for the most part don’t really exist in the EU. I suspect a big reason is due the the hard caps on card network interchange fees. So the size of the transaction pie is smaller, and banks get a larger proportion of the pie than their US counterparts. In the US theres a very clear financial incentive for banks to try and cut out card networks, and claim their portion of the fees. The hard part then is convincing merchants to invest the time and money needed to support these new payment systems. Hence the significant carrot of providing customer data to merchants. In the EU, the banks wouldn’t make a significant saving by cutting out the card networks. So it not clear how they would fund the incentives needed to get merchants to support their new systems. All of those provides a barrier to bank payment apps (for C2B payments, C2C payments all happen through normal bank apps), before you even bring privacy into the equation, which just makes a bank payment system even less appealing to merchants. Having said all of that, open banking in the EU is creating new opportunities for merchants and banks to skip card networks, especially for online payments. So it'll be interesting to see how that ecosystem evolves over time.

cnst 5y ago

Exactly. Perhaps they went with the 8 card limit because they didn't expect that it'll be as popular in the US, and you don't hear that many complaints about it because: * People in Europe who use contactless all the time rarely have as many cards as some Americans. * Americans who have that many cards rarely use contactless. Perhaps I am an outlier for actually using all my cards contactless.