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That's some good news, hopefully a change will follow. Note that Apple Pay also has a very low limit on the number of cards that you can add, presumably becaus

by cnst 5y ago

That's some good news, hopefully a change will follow. Note that Apple Pay also has a very low limit on the number of cards that you can add, presumably because each card occupies an actual hardware slot. In the original iPhone SE, that's only 8 cards, and Apple Cash (the debit card) gets counted as one of those (unless you're remove it manually), then if you have Apple Card (the credit card), presumably it takes another slot, so you're only left with just 6 slots for any other contactless credit or debit card. How's such a low limit good for the consumer? If you only have 6 cards in total, might as well simply carry all of them in your wallet anyways; I do that already. Android Pay and Google Pay don't have such tiny, restrictive and anticompetitive limits. I have like 20 different credit cards as contactless in Google Pay without any issues, which is very convenient if you care about bonus categories; same was for Android Pay before it got rebranded as Google Pay. Plus, in Android, you can even select a third party app to be used for contactless in the "Default apps" — "Tap & pay" settings instead of Google Pay; I know Wells Fargo used to have contactless support in their own app at one point, for example, and was selectable there.

krzyk 5y ago
why woukd you need so many cards? I just need one debit card and thats it. I have also a credit card that is needed by car rentals. And use it only there. And I don't carry around my card because it is something I can forget. And I always carry a phone, so why have two if I need only one. Not to mention limits on pinless payments are higher in Google/Apple pay.
- cnst 5y ago
  In the US, I've even had bank representatives during a fraud alert call tell me I always need more than one card in case one is restricted in any way. (Presumably from different banks/issuers, too, but even a single issuer is also better than nothing.) What would you do if you need to rent a car, but your bank is down, and cannot authorise the payment? The cards I have actually pay me back in rewards for having them. Why would I NOT have as many as they'll give me? Most of my 20 cards come from just 3 issuers (Chase being the one who gave me the most cards), so, it's not even like it's even an issue from the management perspective, because each card is free (or even net negative cost) to own and operate, and it costs about the same amount of time to service them by the dozen as it would take to service just one of them.
  - krzyk 5y ago
    > What would you do if you need to rent a car, but your bank is down, and cannot authorise the payment? This is end-of-the-world type scenario, you can prepare but should you go always prepared for it? > The cards I have actually pay me back in rewards for having them. Why would I NOT have as many as they'll give me? OK, that might be some countries specific, but in my country debit/credit (debits are way way more popular here) there are usually no rewards for paying and juggling cards to save 1-2% is not worth it - had once such card, after 6 months they resigned from such rewards and choosing card to use even on phone is a PITA instead of using the default one. And this was just an exception, usually you don't get rewards unless you have an expensive credit card that gives you mile rewards, but for that you really need to use that card everywhere to make it worth it - so again no need for other cards. This is EU-PL specific point of view.
    - cnst 5y ago
      A single bank being down is definitely NOT the end of the world, provided you personally do have alternative accounts. I think a few years ago one UK bank had a downtime of a few days on their payment network. Wasn't that limited to a single bank? If you don't have to pay an annual fee for a credit card, why would you not at least have a few, to avoid such a scenario? Plus, bank-specific individual account lockouts are far more common worldwide, or customer service and unlock department might be having technical issues. None of this is the end of the world for anyone who has several credit cards.
      - krzyk 5y ago
        By writing "end of the world scenario" I mean that it happens so rarely that there is no need to prepare for that unless you are a prepper. I use a single bank for the last 15 years, there was no issue with it that would cause me to not be able to use my money. They usually have scheduler work during some weekend nights, and I don't remember any large scale issue besides that - for sure I didn't have a scenario where I was without money. For such scenario it is better to have some cash (which I do, but for other reasons - e.g. paying nanny or some workers that don't accept card payments).
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> How's such a low limit good for the consumer? Because having it in hardware means it fetches faster. That’s why I use Apple Pay. The other apps are slower than swiping.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Is it? It works literally instantly on my Android phone. The transaction is over before my phone gets even close to touching the terminal.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    No, but some avid Apple fans will do some epic technical mental gymnastics to try to make the point that iPhones must always be better and faster at every operation.
- cnst 5y ago
  That's just not true. If it's stored in some special secure memory, it's probably actually slower than the general memory on Android. Android's contactless doesn't require network connectivity. You can switch and use any of the added cards without having any network connection.
- simonklitj 5y ago
  Hmm.. If anything I would assume the only potential benefit is that it might be more secure?
nkellenicki 5y ago
I find this pretty funny - I can't imagine carrying more than two cards around with me on a daily basis. In fact one is just a backup. I do of course have many more cards; one of the downsides of the credit system in the US is how you have to game it to improve your credit. But for the most part those stay in the drawer.
- cnst 5y ago
  Exactly, I carry and regularly use only 3 physical cards. The rest of the 20 or so cards I only carry in Google Pay, with the physical cards staying in the drawer and which I only ever use for the 3-digit number when I verify Google Pay on a new phone.
evercast 5y ago
You have "like 20 different credit cards"? I live in Europe and I don't know anybody who would have more than 4-6 cards total. Granted, it's an anecdotal proof, but I really have hard time imagining any of my friends having more than 8 cards in their wallets. Is it somehow a US thing?
- post_break 5y ago
  Maybe? Getting a bunch of cards works out in your favor. Costco card nets me 4% back on gas everywhere and 2% in store and extends the warranty on things. Southwest card nets me miles for flying, Chase cards get me points on certain things, etc. Suddenly you have tons of cards you cycle through to max out rewards to play the game. Also spread out your credit so you don't load up a single card with a heavy purchase.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    >Maybe? Getting a bunch of cards works out in your favor. Costco card nets me 4% back on gas everywhere and 2% in store and extends the warranty on things. That's one way of looking at it. The other is that debt is priced in everything and you're just recouping part of it.
    - post_break 5y ago
      Am I supposed to just stop eating food and buying gas? I don't understand what you're trying to say. If the alternative is pay cash and not get these benefits the only other logical reason for your statement is that I have a choice in the matter to not do these things.
      - Bayart 5y ago
        No, what I'm trying to say isn't that your decision-making is flawed, but that there's little decision-making involved and that you're driven into that path by the way the system is structured in the US. You guys are being forced into a situation where the most rational decision is to have a dozen credit cards to optimize for an arcane rule-set. It's pretty f*cked.
vernie 5y ago
It sounds like you're big on churning/optimizing rewards but I believe that you represent a tiny proportion of the population. The average US consumer has 4 credit cards (I only have one), so 6-8 slots seems like plenty.
- cnst 5y ago
  What about debit cards? So, basically, you're leaving just one or two slots for anyone who's above average?
marcellus23 5y ago
I'm gonna drop this HN comment into the bin of "I have an extremely unusual need, but am totally obvlious about it, so this product is objectively bad for not catering to it" Normal people do not have 20 credit cards. Even people I know who have several cards, often only have a couple they actually use on a daily basis. This is not a real problem.
- cnst 5y ago
  You are aware that 20+ is actually the magical number of accounts that you're supposed to have in your credit file to have the best credit score? This is not even about credit cards. Debit counts, too. Say you have two bank accounts, an HSA account, one premium card, one business credit card, one everyday card, one… Oops, out of slots already! It sounds like you're really happy with Apple products, and will simply change your life around them, instead of demanding something better. 6+ cards is probably already the average for many people.
  - thereddaikon 5y ago
    Says who? I have great with only one credit card. The key to good credit isn't some esoteric process to game the system. Its having a good and long credit history.
  - dagmx 5y ago
    I don't think you're meant to have 20+ credit cards though? I'm struggling to think of anyone I know with 6+ active cards they use for payment. I'd hazard most people have two or three cards tops.
    - cnst 5y ago
      That's the whole point — I can add the ones I rarely use to Android Pay still. For example, I have 11 Chase credit cards, and all of them are in Google Pay on Android. I almost never use the hotel ones; they simply provide other benefits for the annual fee, like the free hotel night for each annual fee renewal. But sometimes they do run bonus spend promotions, that's where once every year I can simply use those cards through Android/Google Pay on Android without having to worry about finding the physical card that I only use once a year.
kitsunesoba 5y ago
I have more than 8 cards, but wasn’t aware this limit was even a thing because there’s no reason for some of them to be added to Apple Pay or carried around. Like the Amazon prime card, which exists only to be used on Amazon or various rotating category cards, of which typically only one or two of are useful at any given time and are used almost exclusively online. Not to say there’s no legitimate use case for 8+ cards in Apple Pay, but I’m having a hard time envisioning it.
- billti 5y ago
  The ONLY card I have in Apple Pay is my Amazon Prime credit card. It’s the only credit card I have (other than my corp Amex, which is used once every few years for work). Every purchase gets you dollars on your Amazon account, so I actually use those rewards (versus the other “points” or “miles” I’ve had over the years and never used). To the story itself: we’re at an interesting junction where your “phone” is absolutely a company’s product and they should be able to define the experience, but also becoming an essential utility in many societies where certain limitations are harmful. I’m still unsure where I land on some of these cases.
  - what_ever 5y ago
    > Every purchase gets you dollars on your Amazon account, so I actually use those rewards (versus the other “points” or “miles” I’ve had over the years and never used). Well good for you. But there are tons of cards that give $ directly in your bank account instead of Amazon account and at a better rate as well. e.g. Chase Freedom has 5% cashback categories every quarter that can be converted into real dollars at 1:1 rate. So...
- cnst 5y ago
  Doesn't Amazon Prime card have benefits at Whole Foods Market, too? They do accept contactless.
- SllX 5y ago
  5% back on Whole Foods purchases too. If you don’t go to Whole Foods then I agree there’s no point to keeping it in the Apple Wallet.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
8 cards is not many?? I'm doing just fine with 2 and that's because I'm from one country and live in another :) most people I know have just one
- cnst 5y ago
  What would you do if it's declined or the number is compromised? I stopped carrying cash like 10 years ago. Even banks themselves recommend having more than one card just in case an issue occurs, to ensure you're not left stranded.
jsjsossse 5y ago
Seriously more than 6 cards? More than 8 if that includes apple? Either some flyertalk point collector or someone heading for troubling times when the credit runs dry

by cnst 5y ago

krzyk 5y ago

why woukd you need so many cards? I just need one debit card and thats it. I have also a credit card that is needed by car rentals. And use it only there. And I don't carry around my card because it is something I can forget. And I always carry a phone, so why have two if I need only one. Not to mention limits on pinless payments are higher in Google/Apple pay.

cnst 5y ago
In the US, I've even had bank representatives during a fraud alert call tell me I always need more than one card in case one is restricted in any way. (Presumably from different banks/issuers, too, but even a single issuer is also better than nothing.) What would you do if you need to rent a car, but your bank is down, and cannot authorise the payment? The cards I have actually pay me back in rewards for having them. Why would I NOT have as many as they'll give me? Most of my 20 cards come from just 3 issuers (Chase being the one who gave me the most cards), so, it's not even like it's even an issue from the management perspective, because each card is free (or even net negative cost) to own and operate, and it costs about the same amount of time to service them by the dozen as it would take to service just one of them.
- krzyk 5y ago
  > What would you do if you need to rent a car, but your bank is down, and cannot authorise the payment? This is end-of-the-world type scenario, you can prepare but should you go always prepared for it? > The cards I have actually pay me back in rewards for having them. Why would I NOT have as many as they'll give me? OK, that might be some countries specific, but in my country debit/credit (debits are way way more popular here) there are usually no rewards for paying and juggling cards to save 1-2% is not worth it - had once such card, after 6 months they resigned from such rewards and choosing card to use even on phone is a PITA instead of using the default one. And this was just an exception, usually you don't get rewards unless you have an expensive credit card that gives you mile rewards, but for that you really need to use that card everywhere to make it worth it - so again no need for other cards. This is EU-PL specific point of view.
  - cnst 5y ago
    A single bank being down is definitely NOT the end of the world, provided you personally do have alternative accounts. I think a few years ago one UK bank had a downtime of a few days on their payment network. Wasn't that limited to a single bank? If you don't have to pay an annual fee for a credit card, why would you not at least have a few, to avoid such a scenario? Plus, bank-specific individual account lockouts are far more common worldwide, or customer service and unlock department might be having technical issues. None of this is the end of the world for anyone who has several credit cards.
    - krzyk 5y ago
      By writing "end of the world scenario" I mean that it happens so rarely that there is no need to prepare for that unless you are a prepper. I use a single bank for the last 15 years, there was no issue with it that would cause me to not be able to use my money. They usually have scheduler work during some weekend nights, and I don't remember any large scale issue besides that - for sure I didn't have a scenario where I was without money. For such scenario it is better to have some cash (which I do, but for other reasons - e.g. paying nanny or some workers that don't accept card payments).

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> How's such a low limit good for the consumer? Because having it in hardware means it fetches faster. That’s why I use Apple Pay. The other apps are slower than swiping.

sudosysgen 5y ago
Is it? It works literally instantly on my Android phone. The transaction is over before my phone gets even close to touching the terminal.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  No, but some avid Apple fans will do some epic technical mental gymnastics to try to make the point that iPhones must always be better and faster at every operation.
cnst 5y ago
That's just not true. If it's stored in some special secure memory, it's probably actually slower than the general memory on Android. Android's contactless doesn't require network connectivity. You can switch and use any of the added cards without having any network connection.
simonklitj 5y ago
Hmm.. If anything I would assume the only potential benefit is that it might be more secure?

nkellenicki 5y ago

I find this pretty funny - I can't imagine carrying more than two cards around with me on a daily basis. In fact one is just a backup. I do of course have many more cards; one of the downsides of the credit system in the US is how you have to game it to improve your credit. But for the most part those stay in the drawer.

cnst 5y ago
Exactly, I carry and regularly use only 3 physical cards. The rest of the 20 or so cards I only carry in Google Pay, with the physical cards staying in the drawer and which I only ever use for the 3-digit number when I verify Google Pay on a new phone.

evercast 5y ago

You have "like 20 different credit cards"? I live in Europe and I don't know anybody who would have more than 4-6 cards total. Granted, it's an anecdotal proof, but I really have hard time imagining any of my friends having more than 8 cards in their wallets. Is it somehow a US thing?

post_break 5y ago
Maybe? Getting a bunch of cards works out in your favor. Costco card nets me 4% back on gas everywhere and 2% in store and extends the warranty on things. Southwest card nets me miles for flying, Chase cards get me points on certain things, etc. Suddenly you have tons of cards you cycle through to max out rewards to play the game. Also spread out your credit so you don't load up a single card with a heavy purchase.
- Bayart 5y ago
  >Maybe? Getting a bunch of cards works out in your favor. Costco card nets me 4% back on gas everywhere and 2% in store and extends the warranty on things. That's one way of looking at it. The other is that debt is priced in everything and you're just recouping part of it.
  - post_break 5y ago
    Am I supposed to just stop eating food and buying gas? I don't understand what you're trying to say. If the alternative is pay cash and not get these benefits the only other logical reason for your statement is that I have a choice in the matter to not do these things.
    - Bayart 5y ago
      No, what I'm trying to say isn't that your decision-making is flawed, but that there's little decision-making involved and that you're driven into that path by the way the system is structured in the US. You guys are being forced into a situation where the most rational decision is to have a dozen credit cards to optimize for an arcane rule-set. It's pretty f*cked.

vernie 5y ago

It sounds like you're big on churning/optimizing rewards but I believe that you represent a tiny proportion of the population. The average US consumer has 4 credit cards (I only have one), so 6-8 slots seems like plenty.

cnst 5y ago
What about debit cards? So, basically, you're leaving just one or two slots for anyone who's above average?

marcellus23 5y ago

I'm gonna drop this HN comment into the bin of "I have an extremely unusual need, but am totally obvlious about it, so this product is objectively bad for not catering to it" Normal people do not have 20 credit cards. Even people I know who have several cards, often only have a couple they actually use on a daily basis. This is not a real problem.

cnst 5y ago
You are aware that 20+ is actually the magical number of accounts that you're supposed to have in your credit file to have the best credit score? This is not even about credit cards. Debit counts, too. Say you have two bank accounts, an HSA account, one premium card, one business credit card, one everyday card, one… Oops, out of slots already! It sounds like you're really happy with Apple products, and will simply change your life around them, instead of demanding something better. 6+ cards is probably already the average for many people.
- thereddaikon 5y ago
  Says who? I have great with only one credit card. The key to good credit isn't some esoteric process to game the system. Its having a good and long credit history.
- dagmx 5y ago
  I don't think you're meant to have 20+ credit cards though? I'm struggling to think of anyone I know with 6+ active cards they use for payment. I'd hazard most people have two or three cards tops.
  - cnst 5y ago
    That's the whole point — I can add the ones I rarely use to Android Pay still. For example, I have 11 Chase credit cards, and all of them are in Google Pay on Android. I almost never use the hotel ones; they simply provide other benefits for the annual fee, like the free hotel night for each annual fee renewal. But sometimes they do run bonus spend promotions, that's where once every year I can simply use those cards through Android/Google Pay on Android without having to worry about finding the physical card that I only use once a year.

kitsunesoba 5y ago

I have more than 8 cards, but wasn’t aware this limit was even a thing because there’s no reason for some of them to be added to Apple Pay or carried around. Like the Amazon prime card, which exists only to be used on Amazon or various rotating category cards, of which typically only one or two of are useful at any given time and are used almost exclusively online. Not to say there’s no legitimate use case for 8+ cards in Apple Pay, but I’m having a hard time envisioning it.

billti 5y ago
The ONLY card I have in Apple Pay is my Amazon Prime credit card. It’s the only credit card I have (other than my corp Amex, which is used once every few years for work). Every purchase gets you dollars on your Amazon account, so I actually use those rewards (versus the other “points” or “miles” I’ve had over the years and never used). To the story itself: we’re at an interesting junction where your “phone” is absolutely a company’s product and they should be able to define the experience, but also becoming an essential utility in many societies where certain limitations are harmful. I’m still unsure where I land on some of these cases.
- what_ever 5y ago
  > Every purchase gets you dollars on your Amazon account, so I actually use those rewards (versus the other “points” or “miles” I’ve had over the years and never used). Well good for you. But there are tons of cards that give $ directly in your bank account instead of Amazon account and at a better rate as well. e.g. Chase Freedom has 5% cashback categories every quarter that can be converted into real dollars at 1:1 rate. So...
cnst 5y ago
Doesn't Amazon Prime card have benefits at Whole Foods Market, too? They do accept contactless.
SllX 5y ago
5% back on Whole Foods purchases too. If you don’t go to Whole Foods then I agree there’s no point to keeping it in the Apple Wallet.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

8 cards is not many?? I'm doing just fine with 2 and that's because I'm from one country and live in another :) most people I know have just one

cnst 5y ago
What would you do if it's declined or the number is compromised? I stopped carrying cash like 10 years ago. Even banks themselves recommend having more than one card just in case an issue occurs, to ensure you're not left stranded.

jsjsossse 5y ago

Seriously more than 6 cards? More than 8 if that includes apple? Either some flyertalk point collector or someone heading for troubling times when the credit runs dry