4 ms·

Regular people should talk to each other. But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accu

Regular people should talk to each other. But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance. Worse, what actually gets propagated is not decided by regular people, rather by opaque algorithms controlled by a handful of mega-entities, Facebook / Twitter / Youtube; clicking the 'like' button is merely a loose signal. Democracy needs healthy competition in the news space.

quotemstr 5y ago
> But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance. This is exhausting. Over and over again in this thread, I see people use dramatic rhetoric to describe in sweeping terms what Facebook should or should not be allowed to do, but there's seldom any discussion of actual concrete and specific rules. You say people shouldn't have like buttons? Well, what about HN? Why should't I be able to upvote a comment? Why shouldn't I be able to like a tweet? Is it okay if I have to type out "I like this" instead of clicking a like button? I get that you're dissatisfied with the current social media environment, but expressions of vague dissatisfaction combined with angry rhetoric don't move us forward. We need to put specific proposals on the table, not just rail against "opaque algorithms" generally. (Also, the algorithms being "opaque" isn't the problem. I'm sure that people would still have a problem with FB feed ranking even if the code were open source.)
- angelzen 5y ago
  > We need 5000 professional news outlets competing for the public's trust. The target has been stated. Are you in or are you happy with the social-media era status quo? If you are in, at least in principle, then constructive comments help. If you are out, and happy with FB+Twt+YtB running the show, perhaps with a politically appointed bureaucratic hypercentralized 'oversight board' on top, then enjoy the brave new world. No amount of specific proposals are going to change your mind.
  - quotemstr 5y ago
    Who gets to decide what's a professional news outlet? In our new world, everyone is a news outlet, and that's a good thing. If there's one thing that the last decade should have taught us, it's that a professional information gatekeeping class will withhold and distort information to drive its own agenda. Information access needs to be broadly distributed and permissionless, with no line drawn between a "news outlet" and a regular person. Deep down, what proponents of FB regulation are terrified of the this disintermediated model, and it's repulsive to me to imagine that there's some committee that decides who gets an audience and who doesn't.
    - angelzen 5y ago
      Who decides what's a professional painter? Car builder? Software engineer? The market. A healthy market needs a ton of providers and a ton of consumers. The news market in the social media era is not healthy. Historical precedent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt#Trust_busting_and_regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt#Trust_busti...
      - quotemstr 5y ago
        I agree that the social media monopolies need to be busted. All I'm saying is that I don't believe in privileging a credentialed journalist class.
        angelzen 5y ago
        Fair enough. I don't believe that either.

quotemstr 5y ago

> But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance. This is exhausting. Over and over again in this thread, I see people use dramatic rhetoric to describe in sweeping terms what Facebook should or should not be allowed to do, but there's seldom any discussion of actual concrete and specific rules. You say people shouldn't have like buttons? Well, what about HN? Why should't I be able to upvote a comment? Why shouldn't I be able to like a tweet? Is it okay if I have to type out "I like this" instead of clicking a like button? I get that you're dissatisfied with the current social media environment, but expressions of vague dissatisfaction combined with angry rhetoric don't move us forward. We need to put specific proposals on the table, not just rail against "opaque algorithms" generally. (Also, the algorithms being "opaque" isn't the problem. I'm sure that people would still have a problem with FB feed ranking even if the code were open source.)

angelzen 5y ago
> We need 5000 professional news outlets competing for the public's trust. The target has been stated. Are you in or are you happy with the social-media era status quo? If you are in, at least in principle, then constructive comments help. If you are out, and happy with FB+Twt+YtB running the show, perhaps with a politically appointed bureaucratic hypercentralized 'oversight board' on top, then enjoy the brave new world. No amount of specific proposals are going to change your mind.
- quotemstr 5y ago
  Who gets to decide what's a professional news outlet? In our new world, everyone is a news outlet, and that's a good thing. If there's one thing that the last decade should have taught us, it's that a professional information gatekeeping class will withhold and distort information to drive its own agenda. Information access needs to be broadly distributed and permissionless, with no line drawn between a "news outlet" and a regular person. Deep down, what proponents of FB regulation are terrified of the this disintermediated model, and it's repulsive to me to imagine that there's some committee that decides who gets an audience and who doesn't.
  - angelzen 5y ago
    Who decides what's a professional painter? Car builder? Software engineer? The market. A healthy market needs a ton of providers and a ton of consumers. The news market in the social media era is not healthy. Historical precedent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt#Trust_busting_and_regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt#Trust_busti...
    - quotemstr 5y ago
      I agree that the social media monopolies need to be busted. All I'm saying is that I don't believe in privileging a credentialed journalist class.
      - angelzen 5y ago
        Fair enough. I don't believe that either.