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The fact is that working for a company is investing a lot of your time and energy to make this company more powerful. Your work count. Really. So your work sh

by ploum 5y ago

The fact is that working for a company is investing a lot of your time and energy to make this company more powerful. Your work count. Really. So your work should be as much as possible aligned with your moral values. Lot of people blind themselves with the salary and weak justification. I find that complete hypocrisy. Now, is the company you are working for aligned with your own moral values? Only you can answer that ;-)

hdhdbid1 5y ago
Its funny, lot of the responses for this thread are investing my retirement money and profiting off it is fine, using products/services of such companies is fine, but working there, that's where I draw the line, that's just morally wrong. Its a lot of I'll draw the line where I want to and belittle others who do it differently.
- circlefavshape 5y ago
  How about working there and doing a bad job? Is that a moral postion?
- hetspookjee 5y ago
  Well I think there’s quite the difference any. A regular user of Facebook is worth roughly tens of euros. But working there rewards you with a salary that’s easily upwards of 200k. Given that they’re not losing money if you, you could consider yourself as one of the few power users around by providing a value to evil corp north of your salary. So I think you can definitely differentiate between a regular user contributing 50euro of value, or contributing >200k of value. Making numbers up here but suffice to say you’re talking about an order of difference north of 100x. Definitely something to think about I reckon, and definitely something reasonable to draw the line at. Imagine hyping the evil corp and adding 100+ users would equate to a year of working there, roughly.
  - naivsdaya 5y ago
    So it is morally wrong but only above a $ amount? :) Anyway, the irony is interesting, some people on HN unable to control the urge to tell a stranger on the internet that he/she is morally inferior without considering how it makes them feel, while blaming another platform for similar effects and how it negatively impacts people.
    - hetspookjee 5y ago
      No, you argued that people draw an arbitrary line regarding morals when working for evil corp vs consuming. I tried to indicate to you why that line isn’t so arbitrary as it indicates a factor of x100, or whatever exact number it is that is many times larger.
      - ploum 5y ago
        Also, really few people say "you should feel bad for doing it". What they say is "I would feel bad for doing it". Which is quite different.
- asdff 5y ago
  It's not like people are going to their broker and saying "buy facebook" then going online and saying "ban facebook." Most people probably have no clue that their retirement indexes include like 1% facebook stock in the mix. With the way retirement funds are set up in this country you really don't have much choice in the investment mix unless you are savvy and with time on your hands to study and pick your own horses. Using another example, I'm against war and violence too, but that doesn't make me a hypocrite for paying taxes that go on to buy bombs, and paying taxes that fund war is just not the same thing at all as me working for Blackwater directly.
  - naivsdaya 5y ago
    Ok, let's agree that some of us have a moral position against x and are benefiting financially from x but are too busy or too ignorant to do anything about it. And, lets also agree that being employed a company is bad, the argument still seems to breakdown soon enough. Generally, the engineers are to blame because they make enough money and could choose other options, but not others capacities of employment e.g. a driver, cleaning staff, cook at one of their food courts etc. at the same company. They could've found other options too if they really wanted. Should a person making minimum wage now look into a company and its moral decisions in the past/present before taking up a job. Generally seems to come down to, oh its wrong but beyond a $ amount (an arbitrary line I just drew for myself), which just seems a very inconsistent moral position to me. Well, if you still think its a reasonable position to say its wrong but when the benefit you reap is > $x, can one of you tell me above what $ amount do the moral values apply?
    - asdff 5y ago
      I mean, I wouldn't work minimum wage for a company like this either. There is no shortage of job opportunities these days at the bottom level what with most every business having staffing issues.

by ploum 5y ago

hdhdbid1 5y ago

Its funny, lot of the responses for this thread are investing my retirement money and profiting off it is fine, using products/services of such companies is fine, but working there, that's where I draw the line, that's just morally wrong. Its a lot of I'll draw the line where I want to and belittle others who do it differently.

circlefavshape 5y ago
How about working there and doing a bad job? Is that a moral postion?
hetspookjee 5y ago
Well I think there’s quite the difference any. A regular user of Facebook is worth roughly tens of euros. But working there rewards you with a salary that’s easily upwards of 200k. Given that they’re not losing money if you, you could consider yourself as one of the few power users around by providing a value to evil corp north of your salary. So I think you can definitely differentiate between a regular user contributing 50euro of value, or contributing >200k of value. Making numbers up here but suffice to say you’re talking about an order of difference north of 100x. Definitely something to think about I reckon, and definitely something reasonable to draw the line at. Imagine hyping the evil corp and adding 100+ users would equate to a year of working there, roughly.
- naivsdaya 5y ago
  So it is morally wrong but only above a $ amount? :) Anyway, the irony is interesting, some people on HN unable to control the urge to tell a stranger on the internet that he/she is morally inferior without considering how it makes them feel, while blaming another platform for similar effects and how it negatively impacts people.
  - hetspookjee 5y ago
    No, you argued that people draw an arbitrary line regarding morals when working for evil corp vs consuming. I tried to indicate to you why that line isn’t so arbitrary as it indicates a factor of x100, or whatever exact number it is that is many times larger.
    - ploum 5y ago
      Also, really few people say "you should feel bad for doing it". What they say is "I would feel bad for doing it". Which is quite different.
asdff 5y ago
It's not like people are going to their broker and saying "buy facebook" then going online and saying "ban facebook." Most people probably have no clue that their retirement indexes include like 1% facebook stock in the mix. With the way retirement funds are set up in this country you really don't have much choice in the investment mix unless you are savvy and with time on your hands to study and pick your own horses. Using another example, I'm against war and violence too, but that doesn't make me a hypocrite for paying taxes that go on to buy bombs, and paying taxes that fund war is just not the same thing at all as me working for Blackwater directly.
- naivsdaya 5y ago
  Ok, let's agree that some of us have a moral position against x and are benefiting financially from x but are too busy or too ignorant to do anything about it. And, lets also agree that being employed a company is bad, the argument still seems to breakdown soon enough. Generally, the engineers are to blame because they make enough money and could choose other options, but not others capacities of employment e.g. a driver, cleaning staff, cook at one of their food courts etc. at the same company. They could've found other options too if they really wanted. Should a person making minimum wage now look into a company and its moral decisions in the past/present before taking up a job. Generally seems to come down to, oh its wrong but beyond a $ amount (an arbitrary line I just drew for myself), which just seems a very inconsistent moral position to me. Well, if you still think its a reasonable position to say its wrong but when the benefit you reap is > $x, can one of you tell me above what $ amount do the moral values apply?
  - asdff 5y ago
    I mean, I wouldn't work minimum wage for a company like this either. There is no shortage of job opportunities these days at the bottom level what with most every business having staffing issues.