10 ms·

Did iOS 15 kill Google AMP

79 points by ddeville 5y ago

olliej 5y ago
Update in the post says a Google PR person said it's a bug
molszanski 5y ago
I think that Apple Relay is a more probable cause
- gruez 5y ago
  How does apple relay affect AMP?
  - lnanek2 5y ago
    Apple uses their own IP address when accessing sites to protect privacy: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212614 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212614 Maybe the majority of iOS 15 traffic coming from Apple servers instead of individuals is causing trouble with Google's current AMP implementation somehow, so they check the iOS 15 user agent and disable it? IMO more likely Google just has a user agent whitelist or regex that misses iOS 15 and AMP was just showing up initially while Apple was sending an old user agent during the iOS 15 betas or something.
    - viktorcode 5y ago
      Majority of Private Relay traffic comes from Cloudflare and Fastly. That's one of the relay's privacy features: the server don't know where the client comes from.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  Which betrays AMP’s purpose as tracking.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  I agree that this is probably more likely.
- siddharthgoel88 5y ago
  I do not think so. I have tried to switch off relay and still it does not show AMP on Safari browser for me.
- viktorcode 5y ago
  It's a communication setup, which does not affect browser agent string, which in turn can be manipulated to allow access to AMP over the same connection.
recursive 5y ago
Seems unlikely. How many people have installed AMP blockers specifically on ios15? How many people have installed AMP blockers on any other platform that's not being UA-sniffed?
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  While it's only a Bezos number, a paid AMP blocker (perhaps from OP?) was in the list of top paid apps when iOS 15 went live.
  - Mindwipe 5y ago
    Question might be if it inspires more blocking elsewhere. It is pretty bad news for AMP that Ampolosion exists. It would be even worse if Samsung noticed that popularity and implemented something similar in their browser, perhaps even by default.
- theshrike79 5y ago
  Amplosion got a big boost by being made by the same guy who did Apollo (pretty much the de facto Reddit client on iOS). I don't get bothered by AMP pages that much, but I paid the few euros for Amplosion just to support Christian's work and give a middle finger to Google's attempts to take over the web.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    I don't care too much about AMP links but I bought Amplosion just to show my support for Christian, the author of Apollo. That app alone makes Reddit bearable. The official Reddit app is terrible and actively harms the browsing experience and makes it harder to find actual useful content on Reddit as opposed to all the pushed spam content.
    - spicybright 5y ago
      For anyone on android, "Reddit is fun" is hands down the best I've used. I seriously don't see how people put up with the main app + non old.reddit.com site. It's just miserable and ad filled.
gruez 5y ago
>So, is it possible that Google has given up on AMP in Safari on iOS 15 because of the popularity of AMP blocking extensions? This doesn't make any sense. If AMP is strictly beneficial for google, why would google give up because of a few people with AMP blocking extensions? Surely it's still worth going after the stragglers? You don't see them giving up on ads just because adblock is popular. I suspect the reason is far more benign: AMP is enabled on a whitelist basis, and they haven't whitelisted ios 15 yet.
- sa1 5y ago
  The page also says: > I know from my own testing that Google search results still included AMP links for the first week after iOS 15 was released on September 20
  - gruez 5y ago
    I guess the revised explanation would be "random regression in ios 15 safari that affected AMP"
    - lolsal 5y ago
      Why is this a regression in iOS? Changing the user-agent string is not a regression.
      - gruez 5y ago
        As in, a change/feature added to the rendering/javascript engine caused an regression.
        dljsjr 5y ago
        Except AMP still loads in Safari 15 if you spoof the User Agent, per TFA.
        gruez 5y ago
Nextgrid 5y ago
If the author's theory is correct, I guess Google's worry is that if they annoy users with AMP they might come looking for extensions and install not just AMP blockers but also ad/annoyance blockers.
rubyist5eva 5y ago
TIL there are AMP blockers on Safari...brb
- finger 5y ago
  I moved to duckduckgo because of how AMP breaks moat sites on iOS .. I too would like one of those AMP blockers
  - rubyist5eva 5y ago
    I don't use google search but every once in a while I get sent or stumble upon an amp link - so even for those limited times a $4 extension is a no-brainer.
- nerdjon 5y ago
  I did the same thing, that is the quickest few bucks I have spent on the App Store ever (and then shared to all of my friends). Did not even need to think about it, I have wanted this since APM first started being rolled out.
  - rubyist5eva 5y ago
    yeah, I didn’t even think twice about dropping $4 on it
afavour 5y ago
Google launched "Core Web Vitals" a while back as their "open" alternative to the requirement to provide AMP versions of pages. It's possible they're running some kind of A/B test with AMP vs CWV calculation and filtering based on iOS version. Maybe an odd thing to do but IMO no less odd than giving up on AMP in iOS 15 because of browser extensions, I can't believe the number of people using AMP-blocking extensions is that high yet.
- gruez 5y ago
  >I can't believe the number of people using AMP-blocking extensions is that high yet. by what metric? I think it being high on the app charts is more indicative of that category being deserted and therefore easy to be on top, than everybody and their mom downloading it. A few days ago I saw a post mentioning that Amplosion was #1 on the "utilities" chart. Now it's #27, and the top apps are 1) a proxy manager 2) calculator 3) dark mode extension for safari.
  - afavour 5y ago
    Right: I mean in absolute numbers of Safari users. Even something at the #1 spot in Utilities for a few days is (in my assumption) still barely a dent.
vidanay 5y ago
Just because you drop the "?" from the end of the headline doesn't mean it's not still subject to Betteridge's Law.
notatoad 5y ago
By this logic safari content blockers enable ad blocking, so why hasn't google exited the advertising business yet?
frouge 5y ago
I'm an AMP noob but why would someone block AMP pages?
- jacurtis 5y ago
  Because they want to visit the actual website and not Google's scraped version of the website delivered on Google's infrastructure.
- viktorcode 5y ago
  My experience on iOS: scrolling feels wrong because it is non-native (different inertia and velocity), reader mode stops working, and if for whatever reason I want to share original link that won't be easy.
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  Because the AMP pages are often functionally crippled compared to the real site and require clicks to get off and on to the real web page (see Reddit, The Guardian etc), as well as the negatives of giving Google that level of control.
tehlike 5y ago
My suspicion, having worked at google for a while, is that this is a parser / version eligibility bug. Someone probably put the list of major versions where this is supported, and 15 was not there :) Things like this happened every new ios release. Going from 9->10 was a problem for example because regex used was limiting major version to single digit etc.
- SimeVidas 5y ago
  There could also be a newly discovered bug or change in Safari 15 that affects AMP pages.
- mobilio 5y ago
  Also AMP it's disabled for Firefox on Mobile (Android)
- LynxInLA 5y ago
  Except AMP links were showing up in iOS 15 in the beta and for the first few days after official launch.
nerdjon 5y ago
Side note: Does anyone have a decent link that explains exactly what AMP is to someone non technical? (Bonus if it explains why its bad, but I think I was able to at least get that part across) I have been trying to explain multiple times but I am continuing to realize that there is certain terms that I just "know" and don't really know how to translate.
- SadWebDeveloper 5y ago
  Techcrunch usually has this type of articles: https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/13/amp-for-email-is-a-terrible-idea/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/13/amp-for-email-is-a-terribl... Since this is site is usually read by C-levels and some VC's, the language is less technical but somewhat editorialized. Anyway AMP is bad because it proposes an Internet without the freedom to push dynamic content (JavaScript, webassembly, etc...), cached at "google servers" for fast delivery but with features specifically built so Google Analytics and others can keep working, it doesn't solve anything that a good css style wouldn't solve plus content creators lose control of their data.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    This is not a good explanation. AMP4Email is different from AMP and serves a different purpose. https://medium.com/@pbakaus/why-amp-caches-exist-cd7938da2456 https://medium.com/@pbakaus/why-amp-caches-exist-cd7938da245... is an explanation of what AMP does.
    - SadWebDeveloper 5y ago
      That is exactly the type of example/article/blog OP didn't wanted, too technical, TC article is about AMP for email but first its describes what AMP is and does, why is bad and why google is pushing AMP for literally everything it can. It's less technical more down to in tone for less technical savvy readers.
      - lern_too_spel 5y ago
shantara 5y ago
It is a bug, and Google is unfortunately working on a fix https://twitter.com/dannysullivan/status/1445799446139191298?s=21 https://twitter.com/dannysullivan/status/1445799446139191298...

79 points by ddeville 5y ago

olliej 5y ago

Update in the post says a Google PR person said it's a bug

molszanski 5y ago

I think that Apple Relay is a more probable cause

gruez 5y ago
How does apple relay affect AMP?
- lnanek2 5y ago
  Apple uses their own IP address when accessing sites to protect privacy: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212614 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212614 Maybe the majority of iOS 15 traffic coming from Apple servers instead of individuals is causing trouble with Google's current AMP implementation somehow, so they check the iOS 15 user agent and disable it? IMO more likely Google just has a user agent whitelist or regex that misses iOS 15 and AMP was just showing up initially while Apple was sending an old user agent during the iOS 15 betas or something.
  - viktorcode 5y ago
    Majority of Private Relay traffic comes from Cloudflare and Fastly. That's one of the relay's privacy features: the server don't know where the client comes from.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
Which betrays AMP’s purpose as tracking.
dkonofalski 5y ago
I agree that this is probably more likely.
siddharthgoel88 5y ago
I do not think so. I have tried to switch off relay and still it does not show AMP on Safari browser for me.
viktorcode 5y ago
It's a communication setup, which does not affect browser agent string, which in turn can be manipulated to allow access to AMP over the same connection.

recursive 5y ago

Seems unlikely. How many people have installed AMP blockers specifically on ios15? How many people have installed AMP blockers on any other platform that's not being UA-sniffed?

madeofpalk 5y ago
While it's only a Bezos number, a paid AMP blocker (perhaps from OP?) was in the list of top paid apps when iOS 15 went live.
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  Question might be if it inspires more blocking elsewhere. It is pretty bad news for AMP that Ampolosion exists. It would be even worse if Samsung noticed that popularity and implemented something similar in their browser, perhaps even by default.
theshrike79 5y ago
Amplosion got a big boost by being made by the same guy who did Apollo (pretty much the de facto Reddit client on iOS). I don't get bothered by AMP pages that much, but I paid the few euros for Amplosion just to support Christian's work and give a middle finger to Google's attempts to take over the web.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  I don't care too much about AMP links but I bought Amplosion just to show my support for Christian, the author of Apollo. That app alone makes Reddit bearable. The official Reddit app is terrible and actively harms the browsing experience and makes it harder to find actual useful content on Reddit as opposed to all the pushed spam content.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    For anyone on android, "Reddit is fun" is hands down the best I've used. I seriously don't see how people put up with the main app + non old.reddit.com site. It's just miserable and ad filled.

gruez 5y ago

>So, is it possible that Google has given up on AMP in Safari on iOS 15 because of the popularity of AMP blocking extensions? This doesn't make any sense. If AMP is strictly beneficial for google, why would google give up because of a few people with AMP blocking extensions? Surely it's still worth going after the stragglers? You don't see them giving up on ads just because adblock is popular. I suspect the reason is far more benign: AMP is enabled on a whitelist basis, and they haven't whitelisted ios 15 yet.

sa1 5y ago
The page also says: > I know from my own testing that Google search results still included AMP links for the first week after iOS 15 was released on September 20
- gruez 5y ago
  I guess the revised explanation would be "random regression in ios 15 safari that affected AMP"
  - lolsal 5y ago
    Why is this a regression in iOS? Changing the user-agent string is not a regression.
    - gruez 5y ago
      As in, a change/feature added to the rendering/javascript engine caused an regression.
      - dljsjr 5y ago
        Except AMP still loads in Safari 15 if you spoof the User Agent, per TFA.
        gruez 5y ago

Nextgrid 5y ago

If the author's theory is correct, I guess Google's worry is that if they annoy users with AMP they might come looking for extensions and install not just AMP blockers but also ad/annoyance blockers.

rubyist5eva 5y ago

TIL there are AMP blockers on Safari...brb

finger 5y ago
I moved to duckduckgo because of how AMP breaks moat sites on iOS .. I too would like one of those AMP blockers
- rubyist5eva 5y ago
  I don't use google search but every once in a while I get sent or stumble upon an amp link - so even for those limited times a $4 extension is a no-brainer.
nerdjon 5y ago
I did the same thing, that is the quickest few bucks I have spent on the App Store ever (and then shared to all of my friends). Did not even need to think about it, I have wanted this since APM first started being rolled out.
- rubyist5eva 5y ago
  yeah, I didn’t even think twice about dropping $4 on it

afavour 5y ago

Google launched "Core Web Vitals" a while back as their "open" alternative to the requirement to provide AMP versions of pages. It's possible they're running some kind of A/B test with AMP vs CWV calculation and filtering based on iOS version. Maybe an odd thing to do but IMO no less odd than giving up on AMP in iOS 15 because of browser extensions, I can't believe the number of people using AMP-blocking extensions is that high yet.

gruez 5y ago
>I can't believe the number of people using AMP-blocking extensions is that high yet. by what metric? I think it being high on the app charts is more indicative of that category being deserted and therefore easy to be on top, than everybody and their mom downloading it. A few days ago I saw a post mentioning that Amplosion was #1 on the "utilities" chart. Now it's #27, and the top apps are 1) a proxy manager 2) calculator 3) dark mode extension for safari.
- afavour 5y ago
  Right: I mean in absolute numbers of Safari users. Even something at the #1 spot in Utilities for a few days is (in my assumption) still barely a dent.

vidanay 5y ago

Just because you drop the "?" from the end of the headline doesn't mean it's not still subject to Betteridge's Law.

notatoad 5y ago

By this logic safari content blockers enable ad blocking, so why hasn't google exited the advertising business yet?

frouge 5y ago

I'm an AMP noob but why would someone block AMP pages?

jacurtis 5y ago
Because they want to visit the actual website and not Google's scraped version of the website delivered on Google's infrastructure.
viktorcode 5y ago
My experience on iOS: scrolling feels wrong because it is non-native (different inertia and velocity), reader mode stops working, and if for whatever reason I want to share original link that won't be easy.
Mindwipe 5y ago
Because the AMP pages are often functionally crippled compared to the real site and require clicks to get off and on to the real web page (see Reddit, The Guardian etc), as well as the negatives of giving Google that level of control.

tehlike 5y ago

My suspicion, having worked at google for a while, is that this is a parser / version eligibility bug. Someone probably put the list of major versions where this is supported, and 15 was not there :) Things like this happened every new ios release. Going from 9->10 was a problem for example because regex used was limiting major version to single digit etc.

SimeVidas 5y ago
There could also be a newly discovered bug or change in Safari 15 that affects AMP pages.
mobilio 5y ago
Also AMP it's disabled for Firefox on Mobile (Android)
LynxInLA 5y ago
Except AMP links were showing up in iOS 15 in the beta and for the first few days after official launch.

nerdjon 5y ago

Side note: Does anyone have a decent link that explains exactly what AMP is to someone non technical? (Bonus if it explains why its bad, but I think I was able to at least get that part across) I have been trying to explain multiple times but I am continuing to realize that there is certain terms that I just "know" and don't really know how to translate.

SadWebDeveloper 5y ago
Techcrunch usually has this type of articles: https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/13/amp-for-email-is-a-terrible-idea/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/13/amp-for-email-is-a-terribl... Since this is site is usually read by C-levels and some VC's, the language is less technical but somewhat editorialized. Anyway AMP is bad because it proposes an Internet without the freedom to push dynamic content (JavaScript, webassembly, etc...), cached at "google servers" for fast delivery but with features specifically built so Google Analytics and others can keep working, it doesn't solve anything that a good css style wouldn't solve plus content creators lose control of their data.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  This is not a good explanation. AMP4Email is different from AMP and serves a different purpose. https://medium.com/@pbakaus/why-amp-caches-exist-cd7938da2456 https://medium.com/@pbakaus/why-amp-caches-exist-cd7938da245... is an explanation of what AMP does.
  - SadWebDeveloper 5y ago
    That is exactly the type of example/article/blog OP didn't wanted, too technical, TC article is about AMP for email but first its describes what AMP is and does, why is bad and why google is pushing AMP for literally everything it can. It's less technical more down to in tone for less technical savvy readers.
    - lern_too_spel 5y ago

shantara 5y ago

It is a bug, and Google is unfortunately working on a fix https://twitter.com/dannysullivan/status/1445799446139191298?s=21 https://twitter.com/dannysullivan/status/1445799446139191298...