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Ah, yes, the European Parliament. They have a great track record regulating technology, not at all like a bunch of out of touch clueless boomers. I'm sure somet

by 4wsn 5y ago

Ah, yes, the European Parliament. They have a great track record regulating technology, not at all like a bunch of out of touch clueless boomers. I'm sure something as complex as facial recognition is well within their capabilities to comprehend.

simion314 5y ago
I assume there are many proposals that are not adopted in US too. But if you want to feel superior read about the issue with robocall in US, I read comments here of people being forced to either respond 10+ more times a day on scam calls or blocking unknown numbers and risking missing important calls. So US free market + US legislature does not seem to me they made a good job either. Now let's talk surveillance, most people know there are false positives , most competent tech people know that there is also a bias with this technology, if you really want surveillance is better to implant people with chips, at least you won't execute innocent people because the SV startup that implemented the AI made a mistake and will not admit it until 15 years alter after a lengthy trial.
- 4wsn 5y ago
  Criticism of the EU on this point ≠ the US is better at it. It's not a competition of "my politicians are better than yours". Almost _all_ of the EU's legislation on anything tech related has been playing to the voters by beating the privacy drum, without actually addressing the underlying issues. Meanwhile, the EU slides farther and farther into irrelevancy when it comes to being anything other than consumers of tech. All the EU seems capable of doing is creating additional bureaucracy while hamstringing Europeans trying to actually realize Europe's potential in the field.
  - gspr 5y ago
    > Meanwhile, the EU slides farther and farther into irrelevancy when it comes to being anything other than consumers of tech. All the EU seems capable of doing is creating additional bureaucracy while hamstringing Europeans trying to actually realize Europe's potential in the field. What are you talking about?
    - dghlsakjg 5y ago
      Not the person you are addressing, but I believe he is referring to the somewhat common belief (in North America) that it is foolish to try to start a tech company in Europe due to the regulatory and business environment. The results bear this out, there just aren’t many European tech companies that reach global relevancy.
      - simion314 5y ago
        Many of the relevant startups get bought by US giants (you know that protein folding results, that Google division was bought from UK), but US guys still are proud because a US bag of money was involved in the results. The reality is that US has a ton of money, they burn in in possible unicorns but also in buying talent and companies from EU, I don't want to speculate why US has so much money in tech sector.
    - 4wsn 5y ago
      https://www.politico.eu/article/pr-problem-high-flying-startups-not-brussels-priority/ https://www.politico.eu/article/pr-problem-high-flying-start... Relevant bits to this particular point. > For investors, the European market is less overheated and so more attractive to participate in than the U.S. market and less "tough" than China, Russia or Brazil. But that's not thanks to the EU. Systemic problems, like a lack of harmonization across the Continent, mean EU startups have to spend a lot of energy on learning and complying with varying rules, like hiring non-EU recruits or rewarding employees with stock options … Patrick Collison, of fintech giant Stripe, advocates for a "more streamlined common market, fewer impractical and ineffective regulations, better legal treatment of stock options and easier access to visas for highly skilled individuals." … "The startup community has been saying the same things for over 10 years," said Simon Schaefer, president of Startup Portugal. "We always said: this is alert signal code red. If we don't harmonize Europe, we'll never be able to catch up with the U.S. and China."
      - simion314 5y ago
        I am assuming that a different branch is working on VISA and taxes, but do you realize that is not easy to get every EU country to be on the same page on VISA and taxes, some will say that this would be a cause for a new "Brexit" But does EU needs to make it easy for giants like Google,Apple,Facebook, Tik Tok to appear? Are you sure that the barriers those startups complain are not actually a local issue?
  - simion314 5y ago
    I am happy with GDPR , thank you. Sure the shit companies are trying to screw me over, but I click the "Configure" button, make sure all 100+ toggles are off and then click Accept only for required cookies. But if you love advertising you can just click "Accept All" if the website is forced to show you the popup, if not you can't even opt-out or even get informed about the 100 "partners". I can tell you who is at failt for bad GDPR UX , is the developers or who ever forces them to install 10 tracking/analytics and other third party shit. And the browsers could propose a standard like "do not track" and I could enable or disable it globally or per webpage. In EU the browsers could default to "Always Ask" and ad-loving guys could click "always track me, do not ask again" I am also happy on how EU handled mobile phone interoperability, like porting numbers, or carrier locking, how they standardized the charger so I can charge most of my devices with same thing etc.
gspr 5y ago
Oh hey, dumb baseless rhetoric! It's ridiculous to describe this age distribution as "a bunch of out of touch boomers": https://nonempty.org/stuff/screenshot_20211006-174820_i708AoGY4D.png https://nonempty.org/stuff/screenshot_20211006-174820_i708Ao...
- 4wsn 5y ago
  Yeah, I was clearly wrong on that point.
rsynnott 5y ago
This will no doubt take years to go anywhere, for the EU moves exceeding slow. But generally the end result is quite carefully thought out. I'm sure you realise this and are just being obtuse, but any actual law would be written by civil servants with expert input, not the MEPs themselves.

by 4wsn 5y ago

simion314 5y ago

I assume there are many proposals that are not adopted in US too. But if you want to feel superior read about the issue with robocall in US, I read comments here of people being forced to either respond 10+ more times a day on scam calls or blocking unknown numbers and risking missing important calls. So US free market + US legislature does not seem to me they made a good job either. Now let's talk surveillance, most people know there are false positives , most competent tech people know that there is also a bias with this technology, if you really want surveillance is better to implant people with chips, at least you won't execute innocent people because the SV startup that implemented the AI made a mistake and will not admit it until 15 years alter after a lengthy trial.

4wsn 5y ago
Criticism of the EU on this point ≠ the US is better at it. It's not a competition of "my politicians are better than yours". Almost _all_ of the EU's legislation on anything tech related has been playing to the voters by beating the privacy drum, without actually addressing the underlying issues. Meanwhile, the EU slides farther and farther into irrelevancy when it comes to being anything other than consumers of tech. All the EU seems capable of doing is creating additional bureaucracy while hamstringing Europeans trying to actually realize Europe's potential in the field.
- gspr 5y ago
  > Meanwhile, the EU slides farther and farther into irrelevancy when it comes to being anything other than consumers of tech. All the EU seems capable of doing is creating additional bureaucracy while hamstringing Europeans trying to actually realize Europe's potential in the field. What are you talking about?
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    Not the person you are addressing, but I believe he is referring to the somewhat common belief (in North America) that it is foolish to try to start a tech company in Europe due to the regulatory and business environment. The results bear this out, there just aren’t many European tech companies that reach global relevancy.
    - simion314 5y ago
      Many of the relevant startups get bought by US giants (you know that protein folding results, that Google division was bought from UK), but US guys still are proud because a US bag of money was involved in the results. The reality is that US has a ton of money, they burn in in possible unicorns but also in buying talent and companies from EU, I don't want to speculate why US has so much money in tech sector.
  - 4wsn 5y ago
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pr-problem-high-flying-startups-not-brussels-priority/ https://www.politico.eu/article/pr-problem-high-flying-start... Relevant bits to this particular point. > For investors, the European market is less overheated and so more attractive to participate in than the U.S. market and less "tough" than China, Russia or Brazil. But that's not thanks to the EU. Systemic problems, like a lack of harmonization across the Continent, mean EU startups have to spend a lot of energy on learning and complying with varying rules, like hiring non-EU recruits or rewarding employees with stock options … Patrick Collison, of fintech giant Stripe, advocates for a "more streamlined common market, fewer impractical and ineffective regulations, better legal treatment of stock options and easier access to visas for highly skilled individuals." … "The startup community has been saying the same things for over 10 years," said Simon Schaefer, president of Startup Portugal. "We always said: this is alert signal code red. If we don't harmonize Europe, we'll never be able to catch up with the U.S. and China."
    - simion314 5y ago
      I am assuming that a different branch is working on VISA and taxes, but do you realize that is not easy to get every EU country to be on the same page on VISA and taxes, some will say that this would be a cause for a new "Brexit" But does EU needs to make it easy for giants like Google,Apple,Facebook, Tik Tok to appear? Are you sure that the barriers those startups complain are not actually a local issue?
- simion314 5y ago
  I am happy with GDPR , thank you. Sure the shit companies are trying to screw me over, but I click the "Configure" button, make sure all 100+ toggles are off and then click Accept only for required cookies. But if you love advertising you can just click "Accept All" if the website is forced to show you the popup, if not you can't even opt-out or even get informed about the 100 "partners". I can tell you who is at failt for bad GDPR UX , is the developers or who ever forces them to install 10 tracking/analytics and other third party shit. And the browsers could propose a standard like "do not track" and I could enable or disable it globally or per webpage. In EU the browsers could default to "Always Ask" and ad-loving guys could click "always track me, do not ask again" I am also happy on how EU handled mobile phone interoperability, like porting numbers, or carrier locking, how they standardized the charger so I can charge most of my devices with same thing etc.

gspr 5y ago

Oh hey, dumb baseless rhetoric! It's ridiculous to describe this age distribution as "a bunch of out of touch boomers": https://nonempty.org/stuff/screenshot_20211006-174820_i708AoGY4D.png https://nonempty.org/stuff/screenshot_20211006-174820_i708Ao...

4wsn 5y ago
Yeah, I was clearly wrong on that point.

rsynnott 5y ago

This will no doubt take years to go anywhere, for the EU moves exceeding slow. But generally the end result is quite carefully thought out. I'm sure you realise this and are just being obtuse, but any actual law would be written by civil servants with expert input, not the MEPs themselves.