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Confused about how that works. I believe the part about authoritarians trying to trojan horse bills that erode our rights disguised as unobjectionable bills. W

Confused about how that works. I believe the part about authoritarians trying to trojan horse bills that erode our rights disguised as unobjectionable bills. We see it all the time with bills that restrict our right to privacy disguised as anti-child porn legislation. People who come out in favor of the 4th amendment are painted as vile criminals. That said, I don't see how it works in this instance. Care to elaborate?

refurb 5y ago
Democracies criticize authoritarian country for torture which violates human rights. Authoritarian country criticizes democracies for environmental “crimes” which violates human rights. Says they have no right to criticize since they also violate human rights. Massive whatsboutism that detracts from the important issues.
- a_diplomat 5y ago
  Yup. And also, authoritarian government uses <insert reason> to open up the framework for negotiation and weaken existing norms.
- mcdonje 5y ago
  Do you have an example of this? I mean, there's a pretty good case to be made that the US and the companies it supports and enables are guilty of some serious environmental crimes that majorly contribute to climate change and negatively impact people's health. Climate change is an existential issue. How do we decide that other countries are engaging in whataboutism by bringing things like that up as opposed to us engaging in whataboutism to distract from our refusal to take meaningful action on environmental issues that directly impact people across the globe?
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    You complain to the authorities about your (poor) neighbor because he beats his children in the front yard. He complains to the authorities that you fly on a jet a few times a year, contributing to climate change. He never flies, you see (because he can't afford it). He promises to stop beating his children once you stop flying. The authorities are forced to admit that this is a fair proposal, as both beating children and flying on jets are violations of human rights. No deal is struck, you continue flying on jets, he continues beating his children, knowing that what little leverage the neighborhood had over him has been lost.
    - mcdonje 5y ago
      It'd be a better analogy to say he complains about you flooding his yard or setting trees in the park on fire. The way you worded it diminished the US' contribution, which is almost 4x the global avg per capita. That aside, whoever speaks second appears to be the one accused of engaging in whataboutism. Just make the neighbor complain first, and then you're the one doing a whataboutism. Both of those aside, the authorities aren't forced to conflate two separate issues and begrudgingly support the status quo. Both can and should have consequences.
commandlinefan 5y ago
My thought was that the "right" to a "clean environment" is, itself, a gift to authoritarians who will immediately use it to enact more taxes and restrict movement.

refurb 5y ago

Democracies criticize authoritarian country for torture which violates human rights. Authoritarian country criticizes democracies for environmental “crimes” which violates human rights. Says they have no right to criticize since they also violate human rights. Massive whatsboutism that detracts from the important issues.

a_diplomat 5y ago
Yup. And also, authoritarian government uses <insert reason> to open up the framework for negotiation and weaken existing norms.
mcdonje 5y ago
Do you have an example of this? I mean, there's a pretty good case to be made that the US and the companies it supports and enables are guilty of some serious environmental crimes that majorly contribute to climate change and negatively impact people's health. Climate change is an existential issue. How do we decide that other countries are engaging in whataboutism by bringing things like that up as opposed to us engaging in whataboutism to distract from our refusal to take meaningful action on environmental issues that directly impact people across the globe?
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  You complain to the authorities about your (poor) neighbor because he beats his children in the front yard. He complains to the authorities that you fly on a jet a few times a year, contributing to climate change. He never flies, you see (because he can't afford it). He promises to stop beating his children once you stop flying. The authorities are forced to admit that this is a fair proposal, as both beating children and flying on jets are violations of human rights. No deal is struck, you continue flying on jets, he continues beating his children, knowing that what little leverage the neighborhood had over him has been lost.
  - mcdonje 5y ago
    It'd be a better analogy to say he complains about you flooding his yard or setting trees in the park on fire. The way you worded it diminished the US' contribution, which is almost 4x the global avg per capita. That aside, whoever speaks second appears to be the one accused of engaging in whataboutism. Just make the neighbor complain first, and then you're the one doing a whataboutism. Both of those aside, the authorities aren't forced to conflate two separate issues and begrudgingly support the status quo. Both can and should have consequences.

commandlinefan 5y ago

My thought was that the "right" to a "clean environment" is, itself, a gift to authoritarians who will immediately use it to enact more taxes and restrict movement.