4 ms·

I’ve always written off ANC as “fine for others, not for me”; loud children don’t bother me, I’m not an audiophile, etc. Then I remodeled my kitchen with a fri

I’ve always written off ANC as “fine for others, not for me”; loud children don’t bother me, I’m not an audiophile, etc. Then I remodeled my kitchen with a friend who had a new pair of AirPod Pros. While we were sawing countless plywood boards, I had foam in my ears, he listened to podcasts; while we were sanding for hours, he listened to music. Etc. Now I see ANC earbuds less as a comfort thing than a tool: a flexible and pocketable solution to all kinds of things that come up (ambulances, jackhammers, overhead trains). Swiss Army knives for ears.

falcolas 5y ago
A good set of Etymotics would give you more overall noise reduction while letting you listen to music, without ANC. I’m with the author on this, ANC is too fatiguing to my ears to use. Passive noise reduction is much better.
mumblemumble 5y ago
I would be very careful about using ANC in such a noisy environment, though. It isn't necessarily eliminating the pressure waves that can cause hearing damage; depending some variables it may just be making them less perceptible to you. Which could then be making the noise more dangerous, since you're less able to judge whether it's at an acceptable level or not. For a noisy work environment like that, I would strongly recommend you get real hearing protection with built-in headphones. I suggested Etymotic in-ear headphones elsewhere, but there are also ones that are based on over-the-ear hearing protection like is more commonly used on construction sites.
- dsizzle 5y ago
  What variables are you referring to? It sounds like you are implying that ANC is just an illusion? Your eardrum/cilia/etc are either vibrating or not -- I'm not aware of any fundamental difference between that being due to cancelled waves or absorbed waves or "true silence." Could you elaborate?
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    For example, here's an info sheet talking about active noise canceling headphones not being an acceptable option for occupational hearing protection. https://ehs.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Noise-Cancelling%20Headphones%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf https://ehs.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Noise-Cancelling%2... The only generally accepted way in which they might protect your hearing is by reducing the urge to crank the volume on your music too high in an effort to drown out environmental noise.
    - dsizzle 5y ago
      That's just stating that commercial ANC headphones aren't designed as hearing protectors, which is true enough, but that doesn't mean they don't protect your hearing compared to nothing. Here's a paper analyzing ANC designed specifically for that purpose (and indeed it starts with the premise that it's possible) https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1260/095745606776985510 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1260/095745606776985...
      - mumblemumble 5y ago
        Sure, but, according to the abstract (it appears fulltext is not available?), that's a device developed specifically for the task. Which is not the case for AirPods. The difference matters. AirPods and similar devices are engineered to reduce the loudness of the sound. But hearing damage is caused by intensity, which is not the same thing. One is about how the sound is perceived, and the other is about the amount of energy being carried by the sound waves. It is possible to reduce a noise's loudness without reducing its intensity.
        dsizzle 5y ago
        What technique can lower the loudness of a sound at your ear without actually decreasing the intensity? Compression and appropriately applied delay can make a recorded sound seem louder -- are you suggesting AirPods do the inverse of that? The principle of ANC is straightforward and the textbook definition doesn't involve any psychoacoustic tricks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control. You haven't given any reason to think AirPods are doing something fundamentally different.
ortusdux 5y ago
I have two pairs of Samsung buds, both without ANC, that allow me to angle grind or run a table saw while listening to podcasts without needing to turn up the volume. The passive nose cancelation of closed IEMs with a good fit should be on par with ear plugs. My issue is that most of the loud noises I am trying to block out are non-repeating. ANC is great for rhythmic sounds, but terrible for everything else. A blacksmith friend of mine hates ANC. My issue now is that the newer Samsung buds all are open, to allow for better ANC. This rules them out for my use case.

falcolas 5y ago

A good set of Etymotics would give you more overall noise reduction while letting you listen to music, without ANC. I’m with the author on this, ANC is too fatiguing to my ears to use. Passive noise reduction is much better.

mumblemumble 5y ago

I would be very careful about using ANC in such a noisy environment, though. It isn't necessarily eliminating the pressure waves that can cause hearing damage; depending some variables it may just be making them less perceptible to you. Which could then be making the noise more dangerous, since you're less able to judge whether it's at an acceptable level or not. For a noisy work environment like that, I would strongly recommend you get real hearing protection with built-in headphones. I suggested Etymotic in-ear headphones elsewhere, but there are also ones that are based on over-the-ear hearing protection like is more commonly used on construction sites.

dsizzle 5y ago
What variables are you referring to? It sounds like you are implying that ANC is just an illusion? Your eardrum/cilia/etc are either vibrating or not -- I'm not aware of any fundamental difference between that being due to cancelled waves or absorbed waves or "true silence." Could you elaborate?
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  For example, here's an info sheet talking about active noise canceling headphones not being an acceptable option for occupational hearing protection. https://ehs.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Noise-Cancelling%20Headphones%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf https://ehs.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Noise-Cancelling%2... The only generally accepted way in which they might protect your hearing is by reducing the urge to crank the volume on your music too high in an effort to drown out environmental noise.
  - dsizzle 5y ago
    That's just stating that commercial ANC headphones aren't designed as hearing protectors, which is true enough, but that doesn't mean they don't protect your hearing compared to nothing. Here's a paper analyzing ANC designed specifically for that purpose (and indeed it starts with the premise that it's possible) https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1260/095745606776985510 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1260/095745606776985...
    - mumblemumble 5y ago
      Sure, but, according to the abstract (it appears fulltext is not available?), that's a device developed specifically for the task. Which is not the case for AirPods. The difference matters. AirPods and similar devices are engineered to reduce the loudness of the sound. But hearing damage is caused by intensity, which is not the same thing. One is about how the sound is perceived, and the other is about the amount of energy being carried by the sound waves. It is possible to reduce a noise's loudness without reducing its intensity.
      - dsizzle 5y ago
        What technique can lower the loudness of a sound at your ear without actually decreasing the intensity? Compression and appropriately applied delay can make a recorded sound seem louder -- are you suggesting AirPods do the inverse of that? The principle of ANC is straightforward and the textbook definition doesn't involve any psychoacoustic tricks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control. You haven't given any reason to think AirPods are doing something fundamentally different.

ortusdux 5y ago

I have two pairs of Samsung buds, both without ANC, that allow me to angle grind or run a table saw while listening to podcasts without needing to turn up the volume. The passive nose cancelation of closed IEMs with a good fit should be on par with ear plugs. My issue is that most of the loud noises I am trying to block out are non-repeating. ANC is great for rhythmic sounds, but terrible for everything else. A blacksmith friend of mine hates ANC. My issue now is that the newer Samsung buds all are open, to allow for better ANC. This rules them out for my use case.