5 ms·

> "At national level, this right has been shown to empower people, particularly those most vulnerable to environmental damage or climate change, to drive change

> "At national level, this right has been shown to empower people, particularly those most vulnerable to environmental damage or climate change, to drive change and hold governments to account" Right, so one of the consequences would be that the US gives a bunch of activists permission to use the legal system to harass anything that they like — not just new projects, but everything that exists in the world. Perhaps we could go all Keystone XL on some Google data center for polluting the world with CO2 and global warming. You don't even need to believe in the cause, you just need to hate Google. Meanwhile nations like China spewing godawful particulates all over Shanghai will surely WILL FOLLOW THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW AND ALLOW THE LITTLE GUY TO SPEAK UP AGAINST THE ABUSES OF THEIR STATE RUN INDUSTRY. Mmmhmm. it's all stupid power games in the end, and this is NOT an effective way to get kids out of the NYCHA apartments slathered with lead paint (to use a local example)

hikerclimber1 5y ago
Everything is subjective. Especially laws.
wayoutthere 5y ago
So because China won’t follow the rules, they shouldn’t exist and we should all spew as many particulates in the air as we can? Those activists are the only thing standing up for the interests of the people; the corporations have all the pull in the legislative world. Nihilism is a good way to justify acting against the common good, which is exactly why we need more drastic positive action against climate change. China will do what it’s gonna do, but we can choose a better path for ourselves.
trasz 5y ago
Except that China is building nuclear like crazy. They are definitely not ignoring the climate change.
- zohch 5y ago
  How does china building nuclear imply that they are not ignoring climate change? They could recognize that nuclear is a better source of power than coal, which most people would, and still not give a damn about the environment and/or climate change.
enkid 5y ago
This is it exactly. Western country have to actually follow the international laws that are put into place. Countries like China just have to claim they follow the laws.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  I think we need to take a deep breath and look at our own abuse of the planet. Sadly, even advanced European countries like Italy and Switzerland were found to have participated in toxic dumping in Somalia. https://theecologist.org/2009/mar/01/somalia-used-toxic-dumping-ground https://theecologist.org/2009/mar/01/somalia-used-toxic-dump... After China stopped accepting plastic waste, we discovered that almost all of the developed nations weren't actually recycling plastic but in reality just dumping it in developing countries. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/28/treated-like-trash-south-east-asia-vows-to-return-mountains-of-rubbish-from-west https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/28/treated-... The simple truth is that developed countries aren't exactly following the laws we put into place ourselves when it turns out they inconvenience us.
- croes 5y ago
  Are you sure? The wars in Iraq and Libya seems to tell a different story. Or civilians killed by drones, the weapon deals with dictators etc.
- simion314 5y ago
  But I see all the time US bullying other countries with sanctions, US could for example stop doing business with China until UN guys are happy with human rights , but at the same time US should allow UN guys to verify human rights condition in US too(including the secret torture places and also the suspicious suicide cases of incommode people). I am disgusted by human rights demands only from China but not from "US partners" that are doing maybe even worse (like not offering equal rights for women or killing gay people with stones). I would have more respect if you equally condemn everyone or just shut up and fix your local issues .
- sofixa 5y ago
  Is that a joke? Most "western" countries have wiped their asses with international laws. Be it illegal wars, illegal kidnappings and torture (US), illegal deportations and violations of international agreements signed months prior(UK), bombing a neutral ship in a foreign country ( France), etc. etc. The examples are too numerous to list, but here's some academic material just for the US: https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2902&context=facpub https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a... https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766228 https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766228
vagrantJin 5y ago
> Meanwhile nations like China spewing godawful particulates all over Shanghai will surely WILL FOLLOW THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW AND ALLOW THE LITTLE GUY TO SPEAK UP AGAINST THE ABUSES OF THEIR STATE RUN INDUSTRY. Mmmhmm. The article makes no mention of China, I'm wondering where this idea is coming from? Can you have a good faith discussion about anything political without going so far out of your way to smear the DPRC? Is it possible to accept responsibility without pointing fingers at others? The DPRC has only been an industrial power for the past 30-40 years, 70+ years after the western industrial boom - Western nations had already put astronauts/cosmonauts in space. If you feel your country isn't accountable for anything, then argue your point because this finger pointing isn't helping anyone nor is it interesting.

hikerclimber1 5y ago

Everything is subjective. Especially laws.

wayoutthere 5y ago

So because China won’t follow the rules, they shouldn’t exist and we should all spew as many particulates in the air as we can? Those activists are the only thing standing up for the interests of the people; the corporations have all the pull in the legislative world. Nihilism is a good way to justify acting against the common good, which is exactly why we need more drastic positive action against climate change. China will do what it’s gonna do, but we can choose a better path for ourselves.

trasz 5y ago

Except that China is building nuclear like crazy. They are definitely not ignoring the climate change.

zohch 5y ago
How does china building nuclear imply that they are not ignoring climate change? They could recognize that nuclear is a better source of power than coal, which most people would, and still not give a damn about the environment and/or climate change.

enkid 5y ago

This is it exactly. Western country have to actually follow the international laws that are put into place. Countries like China just have to claim they follow the laws.

robinsoh 5y ago
I think we need to take a deep breath and look at our own abuse of the planet. Sadly, even advanced European countries like Italy and Switzerland were found to have participated in toxic dumping in Somalia. https://theecologist.org/2009/mar/01/somalia-used-toxic-dumping-ground https://theecologist.org/2009/mar/01/somalia-used-toxic-dump... After China stopped accepting plastic waste, we discovered that almost all of the developed nations weren't actually recycling plastic but in reality just dumping it in developing countries. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/28/treated-like-trash-south-east-asia-vows-to-return-mountains-of-rubbish-from-west https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/28/treated-... The simple truth is that developed countries aren't exactly following the laws we put into place ourselves when it turns out they inconvenience us.
croes 5y ago
Are you sure? The wars in Iraq and Libya seems to tell a different story. Or civilians killed by drones, the weapon deals with dictators etc.
simion314 5y ago
But I see all the time US bullying other countries with sanctions, US could for example stop doing business with China until UN guys are happy with human rights , but at the same time US should allow UN guys to verify human rights condition in US too(including the secret torture places and also the suspicious suicide cases of incommode people). I am disgusted by human rights demands only from China but not from "US partners" that are doing maybe even worse (like not offering equal rights for women or killing gay people with stones). I would have more respect if you equally condemn everyone or just shut up and fix your local issues .
sofixa 5y ago
Is that a joke? Most "western" countries have wiped their asses with international laws. Be it illegal wars, illegal kidnappings and torture (US), illegal deportations and violations of international agreements signed months prior(UK), bombing a neutral ship in a foreign country ( France), etc. etc. The examples are too numerous to list, but here's some academic material just for the US: https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2902&context=facpub https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a... https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766228 https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766228

vagrantJin 5y ago

> Meanwhile nations like China spewing godawful particulates all over Shanghai will surely WILL FOLLOW THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW AND ALLOW THE LITTLE GUY TO SPEAK UP AGAINST THE ABUSES OF THEIR STATE RUN INDUSTRY. Mmmhmm. The article makes no mention of China, I'm wondering where this idea is coming from? Can you have a good faith discussion about anything political without going so far out of your way to smear the DPRC? Is it possible to accept responsibility without pointing fingers at others? The DPRC has only been an industrial power for the past 30-40 years, 70+ years after the western industrial boom - Western nations had already put astronauts/cosmonauts in space. If you feel your country isn't accountable for anything, then argue your point because this finger pointing isn't helping anyone nor is it interesting.