4 ms·

If you declare too many things to a "human right" it removes wiggle room for good policy making. Also, the US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollut

If you declare too many things to a "human right" it removes wiggle room for good policy making. Also, the US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollution than the EU (in terms of pollution that directly damage health like NOx and PM). If it's going to become a "human right" then countries who propose it should be leading it in the first place.

croes 5y ago
>US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollution The whole US or only same states?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Generally the rules are stronger and the (post sale) enforcement is weaker (because turning the screws on the poors over a check engine light isn't as tractable for us as it is for Europe, generally speaking).
  - yostrovs 5y ago
    The discovery of cheating by European manufacturers regarding emissions happened in America. But yes, the little guy can drive with a check engine light in my state without worries.
  - Melting_Harps 5y ago
    > Generally the rules are stronger and the enforcement is weaker (because turning the screws on the poors over a check engine light isn't as tractable for us as it is for Europe, generally speaking). To be fair the amount of Diesel cars on the road in the EU with abhorrently poor emission systems is shocking; I was at VW during dieselgate, and worked with Bosch and VW during the buy-back program and VW are by far the only violators in the EU and in the periphery countries for lacking emission standards. I was behind mid 2010s diesel Opel for ~35km on my way to Slovenia and I have been in enclosed green houses with diesel tractors so I'm pretty sensitive to it, and it was so absurd that such a thing was allowed on the road. Typical check engine light failures (P14X/0420) are susceptible to modifications to pass if you know what you are doing, visual inspection isn't always as stringent as you'd think even with the STAR test sites in CA, which has the strictest emission laws in the World. When I was in motorsports we had a series of people we could rely on to pass our respective track-built machines on the road, but ultimately you realize that it's not worth the time, resources or risk and that the car (if properly built) no longer belongs on the road anyway. As an environmentalist who has struggled with addictions to 'car-caine' I've since downsized from a revolving inventory of 5-6 cars, and 3 motorcycles to one of each: what I think is even tougher is to actually make sensible policy and regulation regarding them without it being simply a way induce needless consumption. Case in point is the absurd World of the 2-3rd Gen Prius used car market and the catalytic converters, which has always had a lot of theft since it was released but have reached an Worldwide [0] extreme this year due to the astronomical rise in PM prices for those metals (inflationary pressure more than demand) so coupled with the supply chain shortages from Toyota and the rise in sudden demand many cars which were in compliance and within emission specs were simply scrapped because when Toyota couldn't deliver there was no other certified manufacturer for the part and something as simple not having a Toyota stamp was an automatic failure. Even though some owners reported emission testing within spec of counties within WA or OR which have less stringent standards than CA but still worth noting their compliance. Their insurance policies payout wouldn't cover a similar ranged car purchase and the only alternative was to sell it out of state and use that sum (usually half the cost of properly registered Prius in CA) and to buy another used one. 0: https://www.hotcars.com/heres-why-prius-catalytic-converter-theft-is-such-a-prominent-issue/ https://www.hotcars.com/heres-why-prius-catalytic-converter-...
- beerandt 5y ago
  The whole US. I found it hard to believe how little diesel emissions are regulated in the EU, especially after the huge deal made of VW testing scandal. For all of the rhetoric, I'd have thought the issue was more strenuously regulated.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mountainb 5y ago
The UN doesn't really have any teeth. It has always been a cat's paw for its most powerful and wealthy members. It's sort of a zombie institution that failed at the onset of the Korean War, but that has been kept alive in a state of undeath since then for various reasons. One thing it does is to buttress the fictive sovereignty of all these hundreds of "nations" which are not actually sovereign or independent, but enjoy promoting the notion that they are out of the belief that it makes the citizens more spirited. If the people believe that the 'new boss' is the people, rather than the 'same boss as the old boss,' they're less likely to revolt or otherwise be demoralized. That's the theory, but it's one of those things where the people who are supposed to 'get the joke' no longer get the joke, so it leads to a lot of confusion and muddled thinking on the topic. The moment that any "nation" asserts sovereignty independent of the 'international community,' the fiction is exposed. There are only a small number of countries actually capable of asserting sovereignty and the US is one of them, China's another.

croes 5y ago

>US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollution The whole US or only same states?

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Generally the rules are stronger and the (post sale) enforcement is weaker (because turning the screws on the poors over a check engine light isn't as tractable for us as it is for Europe, generally speaking).
- yostrovs 5y ago
  The discovery of cheating by European manufacturers regarding emissions happened in America. But yes, the little guy can drive with a check engine light in my state without worries.
- Melting_Harps 5y ago
  > Generally the rules are stronger and the enforcement is weaker (because turning the screws on the poors over a check engine light isn't as tractable for us as it is for Europe, generally speaking). To be fair the amount of Diesel cars on the road in the EU with abhorrently poor emission systems is shocking; I was at VW during dieselgate, and worked with Bosch and VW during the buy-back program and VW are by far the only violators in the EU and in the periphery countries for lacking emission standards. I was behind mid 2010s diesel Opel for ~35km on my way to Slovenia and I have been in enclosed green houses with diesel tractors so I'm pretty sensitive to it, and it was so absurd that such a thing was allowed on the road. Typical check engine light failures (P14X/0420) are susceptible to modifications to pass if you know what you are doing, visual inspection isn't always as stringent as you'd think even with the STAR test sites in CA, which has the strictest emission laws in the World. When I was in motorsports we had a series of people we could rely on to pass our respective track-built machines on the road, but ultimately you realize that it's not worth the time, resources or risk and that the car (if properly built) no longer belongs on the road anyway. As an environmentalist who has struggled with addictions to 'car-caine' I've since downsized from a revolving inventory of 5-6 cars, and 3 motorcycles to one of each: what I think is even tougher is to actually make sensible policy and regulation regarding them without it being simply a way induce needless consumption. Case in point is the absurd World of the 2-3rd Gen Prius used car market and the catalytic converters, which has always had a lot of theft since it was released but have reached an Worldwide [0] extreme this year due to the astronomical rise in PM prices for those metals (inflationary pressure more than demand) so coupled with the supply chain shortages from Toyota and the rise in sudden demand many cars which were in compliance and within emission specs were simply scrapped because when Toyota couldn't deliver there was no other certified manufacturer for the part and something as simple not having a Toyota stamp was an automatic failure. Even though some owners reported emission testing within spec of counties within WA or OR which have less stringent standards than CA but still worth noting their compliance. Their insurance policies payout wouldn't cover a similar ranged car purchase and the only alternative was to sell it out of state and use that sum (usually half the cost of properly registered Prius in CA) and to buy another used one. 0: https://www.hotcars.com/heres-why-prius-catalytic-converter-theft-is-such-a-prominent-issue/ https://www.hotcars.com/heres-why-prius-catalytic-converter-...
beerandt 5y ago
The whole US. I found it hard to believe how little diesel emissions are regulated in the EU, especially after the huge deal made of VW testing scandal. For all of the rhetoric, I'd have thought the issue was more strenuously regulated.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mountainb 5y ago

The UN doesn't really have any teeth. It has always been a cat's paw for its most powerful and wealthy members. It's sort of a zombie institution that failed at the onset of the Korean War, but that has been kept alive in a state of undeath since then for various reasons. One thing it does is to buttress the fictive sovereignty of all these hundreds of "nations" which are not actually sovereign or independent, but enjoy promoting the notion that they are out of the belief that it makes the citizens more spirited. If the people believe that the 'new boss' is the people, rather than the 'same boss as the old boss,' they're less likely to revolt or otherwise be demoralized. That's the theory, but it's one of those things where the people who are supposed to 'get the joke' no longer get the joke, so it leads to a lot of confusion and muddled thinking on the topic. The moment that any "nation" asserts sovereignty independent of the 'international community,' the fiction is exposed. There are only a small number of countries actually capable of asserting sovereignty and the US is one of them, China's another.