4 ms·

100mW (19.8dBm, as per TFM) up close, delivered direct by a waveguide (as per TFM) is a whole lot of energy for something the size of a rat. Hardly a surprise

100mW (19.8dBm, as per TFM) up close, delivered direct by a waveguide (as per TFM) is a whole lot of energy for something the size of a rat. Hardly a surprise that it would have an effect. Add more power and you can cook them.

lifeplusplus 5y ago
I have 30 wifi around me, to which I'm exposed 24/7. There is something to be said about long term effects even if they aren't as high power
- Taniwha 5y ago
  but .... inverse square law ..... before you worry about wifi worry about the one known source of EMR that makes bigger fatter photons that do provably cause cancer .... you know the one, in the the sky, go out when it's visible and you can actually feel the photons
  - the_jeremy 5y ago
    I think there is a significant fraction of HN who would be worrying about their primary method of EM exposure if they worried about wifi instead of the sun (including myself until I got a dog).
  - lifeplusplus 5y ago
    I also found out that brain cancer on right side has increased, likely due to cell phone use as most people are right handed. And that rats got brain cancer. And didn't california release health guidelines https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CCDPHP/DEODC/EHIB/CDPH%20Document%20Library/Cell-Phone-Guidance.pdf https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CCDPHP/DEODC/EHIB/CDPH%20Do... while radio freq wont cause ionizing radiation, it seems they are still capable of biological changes. I read they cause ions imbalance or something in cells. I'd like to really see a study done - have 50 kids take an SAT in faraday caged room and other 50 in general open space with routers, cell phone towers etc. I really wanna know if it affects your thinking.
    - kumarvvr 5y ago
      All the potential health hazards, excluding brain cancer, may be related to high stress life that makes you use your phone a long time. About the brain cancer thing, I highly doubt cell phone radiation could do anything significant as it is very low power. Also, the study you linked only talks in vague terms like "may", "could", "still evolving", etc. To me, it looks like a document put out to assuage some section of the electorate.
  - yetihehe 5y ago
    but ... penetration and frequency. They are important too. Of course that only means that 1000W of microwave has other effects than 1000W of light, but I'm pretty sure that both 100mW of microwave and 100mW of light are pretty insignificant.
    - trehalose 5y ago
      Depends on the power density. A 100mW laser is seriously dangerous, it can cause permanent eye injury in an instant.
- kumarvvr 5y ago
  What is the power output range of those 30? How far are you from them? Is there anything between you and them?
devwastaken 5y ago
what exactly is a waveguide? How much stronger is that compared to something like a directional antenna at 1W rubbing your face?
- sandworm101 5y ago
  It is a pipe that moves radio/light/sound waves from one place to another, usually between where they are created and where they are being used such as between transmitter and antenna or, in this case, between transmitter and rat in a cage. They look like normal pipes but inside have internal structure (ridges) designed to keep the waves propagating with minimal loss. In theory, a fiberoptic cable is a waveguide for light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide
  - kumarvvr 5y ago
    > In theory, a fiberoptic cable is a waveguide for light In practice too. Your statement makes it sound like its an exotic property.
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      The difference with optics is that they are solid, unlike sound/RF waveguides which are hollow. A fiberoptic cable just doesn't seem very pipe-like and isn't normally called a waveguide.
      - hansel_der 5y ago
        seems like a flaky distinction
- stagger87 5y ago
  A waveguide as it pertains to RF is just an enclosed hollow metal pipe that can carry RF energy. The size of the tube determines the ideal frequency it can carry (without excessive losses). I believe at 2.4GHz, a common waveguide is roughly the diameter of a tennis ball cannister, so it's probably easy to put a directly a rat inside the waveguide (I can't read the article so I'm not sure if they do this). In theory though, there is no reason a directional antenna couldn't be used to deliver the same amount of power, the waveguide might simply be more convenient.
im3w1l 5y ago
Is heating the mechanism of action here?

lifeplusplus 5y ago

I have 30 wifi around me, to which I'm exposed 24/7. There is something to be said about long term effects even if they aren't as high power

Taniwha 5y ago
but .... inverse square law ..... before you worry about wifi worry about the one known source of EMR that makes bigger fatter photons that do provably cause cancer .... you know the one, in the the sky, go out when it's visible and you can actually feel the photons
- the_jeremy 5y ago
  I think there is a significant fraction of HN who would be worrying about their primary method of EM exposure if they worried about wifi instead of the sun (including myself until I got a dog).
- lifeplusplus 5y ago
  I also found out that brain cancer on right side has increased, likely due to cell phone use as most people are right handed. And that rats got brain cancer. And didn't california release health guidelines https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CCDPHP/DEODC/EHIB/CDPH%20Document%20Library/Cell-Phone-Guidance.pdf https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CCDPHP/DEODC/EHIB/CDPH%20Do... while radio freq wont cause ionizing radiation, it seems they are still capable of biological changes. I read they cause ions imbalance or something in cells. I'd like to really see a study done - have 50 kids take an SAT in faraday caged room and other 50 in general open space with routers, cell phone towers etc. I really wanna know if it affects your thinking.
  - kumarvvr 5y ago
    All the potential health hazards, excluding brain cancer, may be related to high stress life that makes you use your phone a long time. About the brain cancer thing, I highly doubt cell phone radiation could do anything significant as it is very low power. Also, the study you linked only talks in vague terms like "may", "could", "still evolving", etc. To me, it looks like a document put out to assuage some section of the electorate.
- yetihehe 5y ago
  but ... penetration and frequency. They are important too. Of course that only means that 1000W of microwave has other effects than 1000W of light, but I'm pretty sure that both 100mW of microwave and 100mW of light are pretty insignificant.
  - trehalose 5y ago
    Depends on the power density. A 100mW laser is seriously dangerous, it can cause permanent eye injury in an instant.
kumarvvr 5y ago
What is the power output range of those 30? How far are you from them? Is there anything between you and them?

devwastaken 5y ago

what exactly is a waveguide? How much stronger is that compared to something like a directional antenna at 1W rubbing your face?

sandworm101 5y ago
It is a pipe that moves radio/light/sound waves from one place to another, usually between where they are created and where they are being used such as between transmitter and antenna or, in this case, between transmitter and rat in a cage. They look like normal pipes but inside have internal structure (ridges) designed to keep the waves propagating with minimal loss. In theory, a fiberoptic cable is a waveguide for light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide
- kumarvvr 5y ago
  > In theory, a fiberoptic cable is a waveguide for light In practice too. Your statement makes it sound like its an exotic property.
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    The difference with optics is that they are solid, unlike sound/RF waveguides which are hollow. A fiberoptic cable just doesn't seem very pipe-like and isn't normally called a waveguide.
    - hansel_der 5y ago
      seems like a flaky distinction
stagger87 5y ago
A waveguide as it pertains to RF is just an enclosed hollow metal pipe that can carry RF energy. The size of the tube determines the ideal frequency it can carry (without excessive losses). I believe at 2.4GHz, a common waveguide is roughly the diameter of a tennis ball cannister, so it's probably easy to put a directly a rat inside the waveguide (I can't read the article so I'm not sure if they do this). In theory though, there is no reason a directional antenna couldn't be used to deliver the same amount of power, the waveguide might simply be more convenient.

im3w1l 5y ago

Is heating the mechanism of action here?