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This happened at a company I was at. Hyper-growth startup, huge aura around it. A few high-level folks arrived whose perfection in smooth talking was rivaled o

by throwaway-19283 5y ago

This happened at a company I was at. Hyper-growth startup, huge aura around it. A few high-level folks arrived whose perfection in smooth talking was rivaled only by their enjoyment of wreaking havoc on teams & relationships. They brought in their friends, paranoia and rumors spread, culture went off a cliff, CEO was confused what happened. Mass exodus followed.

mc32 5y ago
How do you filter against hiring these types given their talking and schmoozing get them over the HR guard as well as director and above interviewers?
- devwastaken 5y ago
  You don't just filter to hire, you also unfilter employee concerns. Most people think that CEO's, founders, owners, "management" are not going to back them, and they're generally right. Therefore most problems never skip the chain, and end up being suppressed by their own supervisors.
- subsubzero 5y ago
  How I find them is in their speech. They come across as extremely insincere and "out" themselves by how they talk to either the interviewer(focus alot on themselves) or someone they believe is beneath them(dismissive). If you are a gatekeeper for their employment or something they need expect flattery and overly kind words. If you are no longer that gatekeeper expect to never hear from them again or abuse. Also this type tends to lie alot, thats usually how they do get canned.
  - Radim 5y ago
    "Just call BS! Geez, that was easy. Why are all these HR people so incompetent?" This assumes you are more intelligent than them, and can see through their insincerity during an interview process. But have you considered that these "smooth talkers" can be smarter than you? Or at least have been perfecting their BS craft (while you perfected yours, such as programming), so that you are absolutely no match?
    - wpietri 5y ago
      For sure. Standard lines of BS don't work well on me because they're optimized for other people. But I firmly believe that for every person, there's a line of bullshit they're vulnerable to. And the people most vulnerable are the ones most sure they're too sharp to be BSed.
- wpietri 5y ago
  I do it via interviews oriented on doing the actual work. The more an interview tests the ability to talk about work and be charming and persuasive, the more it advantages awful people. For software development, that's the opposite of what I want. Some of the best people I've worked with were terrible at interviewing. But once we got into actual code, they settled down and their skills shined through.
- Cd00d 5y ago
  I don't like letting people bring their own teams with them. It's a shortcut to a discontinuation of culture and a form of second-order nepotism.
- 88913527 5y ago
  Assess for technical skill and raw tactical ability. This would have the downside of filtering genuinely good leaders who've been too far removed from technology (and thus are pure people leaders) for too long. People that were once technologists, but no longer are, have a way of speaking that's easily clear to pick out. Also, some people move up but keep their technical chops along the way. An executive that can microscope on parts of the org, as needed, with a technical mindset, can provide material value.

mc32 5y ago

How do you filter against hiring these types given their talking and schmoozing get them over the HR guard as well as director and above interviewers?

devwastaken 5y ago
You don't just filter to hire, you also unfilter employee concerns. Most people think that CEO's, founders, owners, "management" are not going to back them, and they're generally right. Therefore most problems never skip the chain, and end up being suppressed by their own supervisors.
subsubzero 5y ago
How I find them is in their speech. They come across as extremely insincere and "out" themselves by how they talk to either the interviewer(focus alot on themselves) or someone they believe is beneath them(dismissive). If you are a gatekeeper for their employment or something they need expect flattery and overly kind words. If you are no longer that gatekeeper expect to never hear from them again or abuse. Also this type tends to lie alot, thats usually how they do get canned.
- Radim 5y ago
  "Just call BS! Geez, that was easy. Why are all these HR people so incompetent?" This assumes you are more intelligent than them, and can see through their insincerity during an interview process. But have you considered that these "smooth talkers" can be smarter than you? Or at least have been perfecting their BS craft (while you perfected yours, such as programming), so that you are absolutely no match?
  - wpietri 5y ago
    For sure. Standard lines of BS don't work well on me because they're optimized for other people. But I firmly believe that for every person, there's a line of bullshit they're vulnerable to. And the people most vulnerable are the ones most sure they're too sharp to be BSed.
wpietri 5y ago
I do it via interviews oriented on doing the actual work. The more an interview tests the ability to talk about work and be charming and persuasive, the more it advantages awful people. For software development, that's the opposite of what I want. Some of the best people I've worked with were terrible at interviewing. But once we got into actual code, they settled down and their skills shined through.
Cd00d 5y ago
I don't like letting people bring their own teams with them. It's a shortcut to a discontinuation of culture and a form of second-order nepotism.
88913527 5y ago
Assess for technical skill and raw tactical ability. This would have the downside of filtering genuinely good leaders who've been too far removed from technology (and thus are pure people leaders) for too long. People that were once technologists, but no longer are, have a way of speaking that's easily clear to pick out. Also, some people move up but keep their technical chops along the way. An executive that can microscope on parts of the org, as needed, with a technical mindset, can provide material value.