11 ms·

Fundamentally I think it has to do with cultural values. In the US, we see the ambitious, driven person as the one who wants to work (at least) 5 days a week.

Fundamentally I think it has to do with cultural values. In the US, we see the ambitious, driven person as the one who wants to work (at least) 5 days a week. We want to believe that outcomes are related to the amount, and not quality, of work put in. This value runs deep to cultural values where idleness is related to sin and “wasted” time[1]. Time spent in economically fruitful endeavors is viewed as important, while other time spent seen as frivolous. Today we see it manifested in startup culture where founders humblebrag about intense number of hours worked, like they’re the true believers in this value system. Larger company execs want to emulate them, hoping their employees show the same “hustle”. Many Americans often don’t even know what to do with their free time! So in the US there’s a lot of cultural baggage to overcome. (Of course, this value isn’t held in all cultures, where enjoying the finer things in life has cultural significance.) 1 - https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/idle_hands_are_the_devil%27s_workshop#Etymology https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/idle_hands_are_the_devil%27...

HWR_14 5y ago
> we see the ambitious, driven person as the one who wants to work (at least) 5 days a week. We want to believe that outcomes are related to the amount, and not quality, of work put in. I think this is one of those "my subculture is not the nation" issues. > Time spent in economically fruitful endeavors is viewed as important, while other time spent seen as frivolous. I don't know if "frivolous" is the right word, but I know a contractor doesn't have PTO. His hourly rate is high enough he could take 4-6 weeks vacation and still make more than he would as an full-time employee (although that depends on the value of other benefits). Yet he still cannot bring himself to take a single day off because he "needs" the money. People seeking a second job, or working crushing hours, are doing so hoping to get paid enough to escape the rat race and/or because they need that money to survive.
eurasiantiger 5y ago
> idleness is related to sin This is definitely the main driver. We must rid ourselves of the Xtian ethos, for it is a system that seeks to maximize human suffering.
- iammisc 5y ago
  Oh yeah, all us Christians are really suffering. Truly we have maximized human suffering. It's just sad when you visit historically Christian countries to witness the maximal human suffering one could ever see in the world. Truly grotesque.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    Look up Mother Theresa. Look up the flagellants. Look up self-crucifixion. Look up penance in the Catholic Church (start here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice)
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - iammisc 5y ago
      I'm well aware. The penitential practices are voluntary. Mother Theresa did not try to run a hospital, but a hospice. Having visited India and seeing street conditions, letting people die with dignity providing them basic necessities is preferable to the deaths I saw on the street. Perfect should not be the enemy of better.
      - eurasiantiger 5y ago
        ”In 2013, in a comprehensive review covering 96% of the literature on Mother Teresa, a group of Université de Montréal academics reinforced the foregoing criticism, detailing, among other issues, the missionary's practice of "caring for the sick by glorifying their suffering instead of relieving it, ... her questionable political contacts, her suspicious management of the enormous sums of money she received, and her overly dogmatic views regarding, in particular, abortion, contraception, and divorce". Questioning the Vatican's motivations for ignoring the mass of criticism, the study concluded that Mother Teresa's "hallowed image – which does not stand up to analysis of the facts – was constructed, and that her beatification was orchestrated by an effective media relations campaign" engineered by the Catholic convert and anti-abortion BBC journalist Malcolm Muggeridge.”
iammisc 5y ago
> We want to believe that outcomes are related to the amount, and not quality, of work put in. Actually, I don't think anyone believes that. People want to believe that outcomes are related to the utility of the work you do, which by and large they are. Few people believe that those who jump and down over and over again in the hopes of flight will achieve success, but most people believe that if you get a pilot's license, you stand a chance to earn some money from it.

HWR_14 5y ago

> we see the ambitious, driven person as the one who wants to work (at least) 5 days a week. We want to believe that outcomes are related to the amount, and not quality, of work put in. I think this is one of those "my subculture is not the nation" issues. > Time spent in economically fruitful endeavors is viewed as important, while other time spent seen as frivolous. I don't know if "frivolous" is the right word, but I know a contractor doesn't have PTO. His hourly rate is high enough he could take 4-6 weeks vacation and still make more than he would as an full-time employee (although that depends on the value of other benefits). Yet he still cannot bring himself to take a single day off because he "needs" the money. People seeking a second job, or working crushing hours, are doing so hoping to get paid enough to escape the rat race and/or because they need that money to survive.

eurasiantiger 5y ago

> idleness is related to sin This is definitely the main driver. We must rid ourselves of the Xtian ethos, for it is a system that seeks to maximize human suffering.

iammisc 5y ago
Oh yeah, all us Christians are really suffering. Truly we have maximized human suffering. It's just sad when you visit historically Christian countries to witness the maximal human suffering one could ever see in the world. Truly grotesque.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Look up Mother Theresa. Look up the flagellants. Look up self-crucifixion. Look up penance in the Catholic Church (start here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - iammisc 5y ago
    I'm well aware. The penitential practices are voluntary. Mother Theresa did not try to run a hospital, but a hospice. Having visited India and seeing street conditions, letting people die with dignity providing them basic necessities is preferable to the deaths I saw on the street. Perfect should not be the enemy of better.
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      ”In 2013, in a comprehensive review covering 96% of the literature on Mother Teresa, a group of Université de Montréal academics reinforced the foregoing criticism, detailing, among other issues, the missionary's practice of "caring for the sick by glorifying their suffering instead of relieving it, ... her questionable political contacts, her suspicious management of the enormous sums of money she received, and her overly dogmatic views regarding, in particular, abortion, contraception, and divorce". Questioning the Vatican's motivations for ignoring the mass of criticism, the study concluded that Mother Teresa's "hallowed image – which does not stand up to analysis of the facts – was constructed, and that her beatification was orchestrated by an effective media relations campaign" engineered by the Catholic convert and anti-abortion BBC journalist Malcolm Muggeridge.”

iammisc 5y ago

> We want to believe that outcomes are related to the amount, and not quality, of work put in. Actually, I don't think anyone believes that. People want to believe that outcomes are related to the utility of the work you do, which by and large they are. Few people believe that those who jump and down over and over again in the hopes of flight will achieve success, but most people believe that if you get a pilot's license, you stand a chance to earn some money from it.