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> They draw voters from the more aligned main party, causing that aligned main party to lose elections. That is the entire point! The mainstream political part

> They draw voters from the more aligned main party, causing that aligned main party to lose elections. That is the entire point! The mainstream political party won't address particular issues unless it feel that it position in power is threatened.

lalaland1125 5y ago
Does that actually work? How did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter? If anything, didn't Biden win by a larger margin against Bernie in 2020 than Hillary won against Bernie in 2016?
- darkmatterrat 5y ago
  > Does that actually work? How did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter? Yes. If they lose an election or start losing their advantage it forces them to re-assess their policies and their positions. I've explained here how UKIP threatened the Conservative vote enough that they had to offer the referendum to secure a majority in 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28767473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28767473 UKIP share of the vote had increased from 3% to 12% in 5 years and the Conservatives knew they were a threat and had to offer the referendum. It forced the Conservatives to address the issue. > If anything, didn't Biden win by a larger margin against Bernie in 2020 than Hillary won against Bernie in 2016? Bernie from my understanding had burned much of his base when he endorsed Hillary for the 2016 election. Also Hillary wasn't a great candidate.
- timthorn 5y ago
  Yes, it can do. Without the real threat of UKIP taking votes from the Conservative Party in the UK, David Cameron would not have promised the in/out referendum on EU membership.
  - spiralx 5y ago
    It was more to do with appeasing the backbenchers in the 1822 Committee than voters.
    - darkmatterrat 5y ago
      UKIP went from having a 3% share of the vote in 2010 to 12-13% in 2015. People constantly downplay this to make it out as if it was only an internal Conservative party dispute. However there was growing pressure to have the referendum.
  - notahacker 5y ago
    This is a fair counter example, but one also has to consider that (i) much of the referendum demand came from within his own party for ideological rather than practical reasons and (ii) he was able to implement it because the UK's electoral system and multiparty politics gave his party a clear majority with a minority of the vote . Or put more simply: his personal standing within the party was threatened more than his party's electoral chances (UKIP votes were irrelevant in most Tory seats and took votes off Labour too in marginals), and he wouldn't have been in power anyway under a proportional system. Ironically, EU Parliament votes being proportional probably played a major role in Farage deciding back in the nineties that he could try to win the Brexit debate from outside the Tory party too...
    - native_samples 5y ago
      The votes were not irrelevant. Most people think that offering the referendum to UKIP voters is the only reason the Conservatives weren't forced into another coalition government.

lalaland1125 5y ago

Does that actually work? How did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter? If anything, didn't Biden win by a larger margin against Bernie in 2020 than Hillary won against Bernie in 2016?

darkmatterrat 5y ago
> Does that actually work? How did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter? Yes. If they lose an election or start losing their advantage it forces them to re-assess their policies and their positions. I've explained here how UKIP threatened the Conservative vote enough that they had to offer the referendum to secure a majority in 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28767473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28767473 UKIP share of the vote had increased from 3% to 12% in 5 years and the Conservatives knew they were a threat and had to offer the referendum. It forced the Conservatives to address the issue. > If anything, didn't Biden win by a larger margin against Bernie in 2020 than Hillary won against Bernie in 2016? Bernie from my understanding had burned much of his base when he endorsed Hillary for the 2016 election. Also Hillary wasn't a great candidate.
timthorn 5y ago
Yes, it can do. Without the real threat of UKIP taking votes from the Conservative Party in the UK, David Cameron would not have promised the in/out referendum on EU membership.
- spiralx 5y ago
  It was more to do with appeasing the backbenchers in the 1822 Committee than voters.
  - darkmatterrat 5y ago
    UKIP went from having a 3% share of the vote in 2010 to 12-13% in 2015. People constantly downplay this to make it out as if it was only an internal Conservative party dispute. However there was growing pressure to have the referendum.
- notahacker 5y ago
  This is a fair counter example, but one also has to consider that (i) much of the referendum demand came from within his own party for ideological rather than practical reasons and (ii) he was able to implement it because the UK's electoral system and multiparty politics gave his party a clear majority with a minority of the vote . Or put more simply: his personal standing within the party was threatened more than his party's electoral chances (UKIP votes were irrelevant in most Tory seats and took votes off Labour too in marginals), and he wouldn't have been in power anyway under a proportional system. Ironically, EU Parliament votes being proportional probably played a major role in Farage deciding back in the nineties that he could try to win the Brexit debate from outside the Tory party too...
  - native_samples 5y ago
    The votes were not irrelevant. Most people think that offering the referendum to UKIP voters is the only reason the Conservatives weren't forced into another coalition government.