4 ms·

So how do they encourage people to return library materials on time or soon thereafter?

xyzelement 5y ago
Interesting question. The article references that Chicago saw an improvement in return rates although it doesn't really explain how that happened to justify that it's not one time or spurious thing. I would be curious how this pans out over time and whether libraries would change course of this causes a problem. Given that the change was pushed through in the name of equality, there's probably not much that would ever cause it to be undone. Hopefully it works well.
lalaland1125 5y ago
You can't check out new material until you return the materials that you already have. From an article on Chicago's new system: | Chicago's cardholders have seven days past the due date to return items before their card is blocked from use. In the case of lost materials, patrons must pay to replace the book or provide a new copy of the same edition. | | "We're really putting the focus on the physical object that needs to come back to the library rather than the revenue stream — that really wasn't a revenue stream," Telli said.
- monksy 5y ago
  > "We're really putting the focus on the physical object that needs to come back to the library rather than the revenue stream — that really wasn't a revenue stream," Telli said. That's not at all how they sold it. They claimed at the time .. fees for late book returns were regressive and harmed lower income peoples while discouraging them from checking out books/continuing to check them out.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    They still claim that. The change isn't limited to one implication or effect.
burkaman 5y ago
> And these increasingly popular initiatives have been proven successful: After the policy change, Chicago public libraries saw an increase in returned materials as well as library card renewals, according to a previous NPR report. It seems like fines are not very effective at getting people to return stuff on time, but they are effective at getting people to never return things and stop going to the library once they have a few late books, because they can't afford the fines. To directly answer your question, they can just ask people to please be respectful and try to return things on time, and they can stop people from checking out new items if they have too many overdue ones. The problem isn't big enough to warrant stronger measures than that.
runawaybottle 5y ago
Every book can be digitally taken out.
- ejb999 5y ago
  no they can't
  - runawaybottle 5y ago
    What the hell do we do in this industry if that’s not the case?
bitwize 5y ago
Does it matter? Times change, and we're now living in an era where "petty theft is wrong" is a sinfully bourgeois thing to believe because it disproportionately affects the poor. If someone steals your bike, be happy that it brought someone else joy.
- hnaccount141 5y ago
  If someone wants to steal a book, why would they come back and pay the fine? The only people who would pay the fine are the ones who want to continue checking out books, so preventing them from doing so if they have a late book is incentive enough. This is a pragmatic move by the libraries. The reality of fines is that they don't prevent bad actors from stealing books. All they accomplish is disincentivizing those who miss their due date (whether intentionally or not) from bringing the book back. Chicago did a similar thing a couple years back and actually saw an increase in returns. https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/10/30/20940677/chicago-public-library-no-fines-book-returns-increase-lightfoot https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/10/30/20940677/chicag...
joe5150 5y ago
Fines don't necessarily encourage returns, for one thing.
jacobsenscott 5y ago
Isn't "on time" when you are done with the book? I don't use the library because I can't finish a book in the allotted time (two week I think, but haven't been there in a long time). Often you can't renew because there is a wait list. I'm probably a slow reader, but I also have a job, kids, etc. If our library switched to this policy I would definitely use it and probably get the books back in 4 weeks. The "encouragement" would be that I want to read another book, and I don't need to pay a fine. As it is I just buy books on kindle so I can read them at my pace.

Interesting question. The article references that Chicago saw an improvement in return rates although it doesn't really explain how that happened to justify that it's not one time or spurious thing. I would be curious how this pans out over time and whether libraries would change course of this causes a problem. Given that the change was pushed through in the name of equality, there's probably not much that would ever cause it to be undone. Hopefully it works well.

lalaland1125 5y ago

You can't check out new material until you return the materials that you already have. From an article on Chicago's new system: | Chicago's cardholders have seven days past the due date to return items before their card is blocked from use. In the case of lost materials, patrons must pay to replace the book or provide a new copy of the same edition. | | "We're really putting the focus on the physical object that needs to come back to the library rather than the revenue stream — that really wasn't a revenue stream," Telli said.

monksy 5y ago
> "We're really putting the focus on the physical object that needs to come back to the library rather than the revenue stream — that really wasn't a revenue stream," Telli said. That's not at all how they sold it. They claimed at the time .. fees for late book returns were regressive and harmed lower income peoples while discouraging them from checking out books/continuing to check them out.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  They still claim that. The change isn't limited to one implication or effect.

burkaman 5y ago

> And these increasingly popular initiatives have been proven successful: After the policy change, Chicago public libraries saw an increase in returned materials as well as library card renewals, according to a previous NPR report. It seems like fines are not very effective at getting people to return stuff on time, but they are effective at getting people to never return things and stop going to the library once they have a few late books, because they can't afford the fines. To directly answer your question, they can just ask people to please be respectful and try to return things on time, and they can stop people from checking out new items if they have too many overdue ones. The problem isn't big enough to warrant stronger measures than that.

runawaybottle 5y ago

Every book can be digitally taken out.

ejb999 5y ago
no they can't
- runawaybottle 5y ago
  What the hell do we do in this industry if that’s not the case?

bitwize 5y ago

Does it matter? Times change, and we're now living in an era where "petty theft is wrong" is a sinfully bourgeois thing to believe because it disproportionately affects the poor. If someone steals your bike, be happy that it brought someone else joy.

hnaccount141 5y ago
If someone wants to steal a book, why would they come back and pay the fine? The only people who would pay the fine are the ones who want to continue checking out books, so preventing them from doing so if they have a late book is incentive enough. This is a pragmatic move by the libraries. The reality of fines is that they don't prevent bad actors from stealing books. All they accomplish is disincentivizing those who miss their due date (whether intentionally or not) from bringing the book back. Chicago did a similar thing a couple years back and actually saw an increase in returns. https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/10/30/20940677/chicago-public-library-no-fines-book-returns-increase-lightfoot https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/10/30/20940677/chicag...

joe5150 5y ago

Fines don't necessarily encourage returns, for one thing.

jacobsenscott 5y ago

Isn't "on time" when you are done with the book? I don't use the library because I can't finish a book in the allotted time (two week I think, but haven't been there in a long time). Often you can't renew because there is a wait list. I'm probably a slow reader, but I also have a job, kids, etc. If our library switched to this policy I would definitely use it and probably get the books back in 4 weeks. The "encouragement" would be that I want to read another book, and I don't need to pay a fine. As it is I just buy books on kindle so I can read them at my pace.