3 ms·

iOS devices never advertised support for booting whatever you want; Macs always did. Very, very different product lines.

mtone 5y ago
So the 15" M1 laptop will let you custom boot if you manage to decipher its undocumented internals, but the 10" M1 tablet will actively shut down attempts on the next update. Great.
- _xy8h 5y ago
  Yep. This seems to be the point the "FUD! FUD!" criers are ignoring. Apple has a long, continuous history of locking down hardware. Never having a bootloader unlockable iDevice, unibody, glue, soldered on components that are traditionally user replaceable, soldering in displays and backs when people try to repair batteries, serializing the components so you can't even swap official parts. Apple has never gone in the reverse direction to make components more easily user serviceable. It's always been in the more restrictive direction. More proprietary with every iteration. Now it's the CPU. Bootloader locking on an M1 Macbook is the next logical step.
  - floatboth 5y ago
    If that is the next logical step why would they go out of their way to design a whole mechanism for running custom kernels? They could've just released a locked down Macbook in the first place if that was the goal.
bscphil 5y ago
I'm sympathetic to marcan's points and I don't think Apple is likely to do anything like this, personally, but this argument isn't very convincing. All this means is that they can't release a firmware update blocking use of a third party OS on existing hardware (contra techrat). OK, great, but we're talking about a manufacturer that makes products designed to go in the rubbish bin 2-4 years after manufacture (witness the half dozen comments by users in this thread saying they have already put their M1 computers in a drawer somewhere!). Apple are constantly iterating, and the goal of a project like Asahi is to stay ahead of the game and continue running on new hardware. The proper and correct point that techrat should have made is that the second something like Asahi is a threat to Apple for any reason, Apple can release new hardware that's locked down similar to iOS. You'll even have people on this site defending the changes too, in the name of security or something.
- techrat 5y ago
  The bigger point that I've been trying to make (regardless of whether or not you think Apple would try to lock down an M1 Macbook) is that I don't trust Apple because of their history. They have a LONG history of making decisions that ultimately are hostile to the user. Apple also has a history of explicitly locking out Linux users. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2... > It looks like even if disabling the Secure Boot functionality, the T2 chip is reportedly still blocking operating systems aside from macOS and Windows 10. This is further than Microsoft has ever gone with hardware. Apple has been dipping their toes into the telemetry and ad tracking waters for a while now. If they see Asahi cutting into those margins because people are buying Apple hardware and installing an OS that prevents them from collecting user data, I can believe they'd see them as a threat. Why? Again, history. Apple has shut down numerous developers who made "competing" features for iOS via apps in the App Store... even though those developers had the app first before Apple decided to add the features into iOS. But yeah, something something security something...
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    Lots of companies have a history of making decisions that are hostile to users. If you avoided all of them, I dare say you'd have a hard time using the internet. This isn't good, but it is the state of the world. Just buy the hardware you want to use and don't assume it will get better over time. Even if Apple suddenly decided they wanted to lock out other OS's (they won't), they can't remotely update the bootloader if you're running Linux.
- tpmoney 5y ago
  If people have “already put their M1 computers in a drawer somewhere” that’s hardly because Apple “designed [the product] to go in the rubbish bin 2-4 years after manufacture”. Apple has a fairly long arm of support for products. The MacBook pros made in 2014 finally this year stopped receiving new os updates (but are still receiving security updates). The iPhone 6s got iOS 15 this year and that’s a 6 year old device. If people are chucking their devices after 2 years that’s on them

mtone 5y ago

So the 15" M1 laptop will let you custom boot if you manage to decipher its undocumented internals, but the 10" M1 tablet will actively shut down attempts on the next update. Great.

_xy8h 5y ago
Yep. This seems to be the point the "FUD! FUD!" criers are ignoring. Apple has a long, continuous history of locking down hardware. Never having a bootloader unlockable iDevice, unibody, glue, soldered on components that are traditionally user replaceable, soldering in displays and backs when people try to repair batteries, serializing the components so you can't even swap official parts. Apple has never gone in the reverse direction to make components more easily user serviceable. It's always been in the more restrictive direction. More proprietary with every iteration. Now it's the CPU. Bootloader locking on an M1 Macbook is the next logical step.
- floatboth 5y ago
  If that is the next logical step why would they go out of their way to design a whole mechanism for running custom kernels? They could've just released a locked down Macbook in the first place if that was the goal.

bscphil 5y ago

I'm sympathetic to marcan's points and I don't think Apple is likely to do anything like this, personally, but this argument isn't very convincing. All this means is that they can't release a firmware update blocking use of a third party OS on existing hardware (contra techrat). OK, great, but we're talking about a manufacturer that makes products designed to go in the rubbish bin 2-4 years after manufacture (witness the half dozen comments by users in this thread saying they have already put their M1 computers in a drawer somewhere!). Apple are constantly iterating, and the goal of a project like Asahi is to stay ahead of the game and continue running on new hardware. The proper and correct point that techrat should have made is that the second something like Asahi is a threat to Apple for any reason, Apple can release new hardware that's locked down similar to iOS. You'll even have people on this site defending the changes too, in the name of security or something.

techrat 5y ago
The bigger point that I've been trying to make (regardless of whether or not you think Apple would try to lock down an M1 Macbook) is that I don't trust Apple because of their history. They have a LONG history of making decisions that ultimately are hostile to the user. Apple also has a history of explicitly locking out Linux users. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2... > It looks like even if disabling the Secure Boot functionality, the T2 chip is reportedly still blocking operating systems aside from macOS and Windows 10. This is further than Microsoft has ever gone with hardware. Apple has been dipping their toes into the telemetry and ad tracking waters for a while now. If they see Asahi cutting into those margins because people are buying Apple hardware and installing an OS that prevents them from collecting user data, I can believe they'd see them as a threat. Why? Again, history. Apple has shut down numerous developers who made "competing" features for iOS via apps in the App Store... even though those developers had the app first before Apple decided to add the features into iOS. But yeah, something something security something...
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  Lots of companies have a history of making decisions that are hostile to users. If you avoided all of them, I dare say you'd have a hard time using the internet. This isn't good, but it is the state of the world. Just buy the hardware you want to use and don't assume it will get better over time. Even if Apple suddenly decided they wanted to lock out other OS's (they won't), they can't remotely update the bootloader if you're running Linux.
tpmoney 5y ago
If people have “already put their M1 computers in a drawer somewhere” that’s hardly because Apple “designed [the product] to go in the rubbish bin 2-4 years after manufacture”. Apple has a fairly long arm of support for products. The MacBook pros made in 2014 finally this year stopped receiving new os updates (but are still receiving security updates). The iPhone 6s got iOS 15 this year and that’s a 6 year old device. If people are chucking their devices after 2 years that’s on them