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The debt limit has always been backdoor spending cap, Congress curbs their spending in part because they know they are going to have to fight over the debt lim

by syshum 5y ago

The debt limit has always been backdoor spending cap, Congress curbs their spending in part because they know they are going to have to fight over the debt limit If there is in engineered way to create no spending limits for congress that congress will not spend 100% of that is moronically naive If they make a 10 Trillion coin, congress will pass a spending measure to spend all 10 Trillion to believe other wise is to be ignorant of history to a level that I don't believe is fathomable This gimmick WILL CAUSE INFLATION. you can bank on that.

andrewla 5y ago
You're talking second order effects, and I do agree with you on that. But Congress has authorized the spending. And it is against the law (as passed by congress) for the executive to _not spend_ money that has been appropriated. And it is illegal for the executive to borrow money to achieve those spending goals. I think someone called it a trilemma -- Congress has passed a rock-paper-scissors law, and left no legal action that can be taken by the executive. Except that there's a loophole that they can mint the coin. Congress can close that loophole if they want! But right now it exists. If Congress wants to control spending they should control spending, not force the executive branch to choose which law to break because they are in contradiction.
horsawlarway 5y ago
> The debt limit has always been backdoor spending cap, Congress curbs their spending in part because they know they are going to have to fight over the debt limit This seems to be the premise of a lot of later conclusions you're making, but it's basically wrong: Congress can print money at will. The debt ceiling is not the reason we don't do that. Reputation and inflation mostly are.
- syshum 5y ago
  >> Congress can print money at will. No Congress can not, the Federal Reserve can, which is not under the authority of congress at all really. Congress can spend money, and Congress can Mint Coins (i.e this story) but it can not create federal reserve notes If it spends more money than it take in from taxes it must issue Treasury bills that is has to sell to someone, Today almost no one wants to buy US Debt because congress is irresponsible like a child with a AMEX Black card. So the only entity willing to buy US debt is the Federal Reserve who does so by money printing aka inflation of US Currency aka a tax on responsible people in society
  - horsawlarway 5y ago
    https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C5-1/ALDE_00001066/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C5-1/... They damn well can. There's nothing stopping congress from dissolving the federal reserve tomorrow if they'd like, other than the general dysfunction of congress that's spurred this whole discussion.

by syshum 5y ago

andrewla 5y ago

You're talking second order effects, and I do agree with you on that. But Congress has authorized the spending. And it is against the law (as passed by congress) for the executive to _not spend_ money that has been appropriated. And it is illegal for the executive to borrow money to achieve those spending goals. I think someone called it a trilemma -- Congress has passed a rock-paper-scissors law, and left no legal action that can be taken by the executive. Except that there's a loophole that they can mint the coin. Congress can close that loophole if they want! But right now it exists. If Congress wants to control spending they should control spending, not force the executive branch to choose which law to break because they are in contradiction.

horsawlarway 5y ago

> The debt limit has always been backdoor spending cap, Congress curbs their spending in part because they know they are going to have to fight over the debt limit This seems to be the premise of a lot of later conclusions you're making, but it's basically wrong: Congress can print money at will. The debt ceiling is not the reason we don't do that. Reputation and inflation mostly are.

syshum 5y ago
>> Congress can print money at will. No Congress can not, the Federal Reserve can, which is not under the authority of congress at all really. Congress can spend money, and Congress can Mint Coins (i.e this story) but it can not create federal reserve notes If it spends more money than it take in from taxes it must issue Treasury bills that is has to sell to someone, Today almost no one wants to buy US Debt because congress is irresponsible like a child with a AMEX Black card. So the only entity willing to buy US debt is the Federal Reserve who does so by money printing aka inflation of US Currency aka a tax on responsible people in society
- horsawlarway 5y ago
  https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C5-1/ALDE_00001066/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C5-1/... They damn well can. There's nothing stopping congress from dissolving the federal reserve tomorrow if they'd like, other than the general dysfunction of congress that's spurred this whole discussion.