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Would you agree that it would be wrong for telephone companies to amplify sex slavery conversations? Like they would call you directly and just let you particip

Would you agree that it would be wrong for telephone companies to amplify sex slavery conversations? Like they would call you directly and just let you participate in the conversation because that would generate more engagement?

haroldp 5y ago
That is a very good counter point. I haven't read this facebook story yet, but I am willing to assume for argument that describes what happened. I guess it would depend for me on whether people saw sex-slavery content and decided to amplify it, vs an algorithm that finds and promotes "engaging" things without being very smart about what they are.
vladd 5y ago
When phone companies came into existence, that's exactly what they did -- they amplified such conversations by making it easier for people to have phone calls and talk at a distance of each other. They also got amplified whenever long distance calls got cheaper (as the overall volume of conversations increased).
Dracophoenix 5y ago
How are you defining "amplification"? Phones already operate by complex signal amplification over long distances. Why do you think burner phones are still prevalent for all manner of illicit activity? I don't think the phone company should be shut down because others can use it in a way that's considered devious. I don't think the phone company should play "morality police" either. I simply expect the phone company to simply provide the service I paid for. This type of thinking strikes as the kind that would damn Gutenberg for inventing the movable-type printing press because print has been used to disseminate propaganda and debauchery to billions of people several centuries later.
- finfinfin 5y ago
  Amplification not in the electrical signal amplification sense but rather in the sense of amplifying the message. Facebook is giving more visibility to content that it considers more engaging, even if that content leads to harmful outcomes (it’s own research proves that).
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    You were making a point regarding phone-operated sex trafficking. Your characterization of what the phone company should do was what I contended. While, I'm aware that this was made as a broader point regarding Facebook, amplifying a signal and amplifying a message isn't functionally different. Television is an example of where both are happening. Even Twitter and Tiktok engage in amplification every time there's some Tide-pod Challenge. I don't see why Facebook would have to be responsible for how people feel about themselves, what stunts bad actors pull.
    - finfinfin 5y ago
      Right. In the case of phone-operated sex trafficking I don't think amplification is even an option. It's not like phone companies are deciding what phone calls you should be receiving today and are lining them up for you to take part in. So they don't involve algorithmic manipulation (or optimization for engagement), unlike Facebook or other social media. In my parent post I was giving an example of an absurd imaginary situation with phone companies attempting to amplify sex trafficking by directly deciding who will participate in the conversation for the purpose of increasing engagement.

haroldp 5y ago

That is a very good counter point. I haven't read this facebook story yet, but I am willing to assume for argument that describes what happened. I guess it would depend for me on whether people saw sex-slavery content and decided to amplify it, vs an algorithm that finds and promotes "engaging" things without being very smart about what they are.

vladd 5y ago

When phone companies came into existence, that's exactly what they did -- they amplified such conversations by making it easier for people to have phone calls and talk at a distance of each other. They also got amplified whenever long distance calls got cheaper (as the overall volume of conversations increased).

Dracophoenix 5y ago

How are you defining "amplification"? Phones already operate by complex signal amplification over long distances. Why do you think burner phones are still prevalent for all manner of illicit activity? I don't think the phone company should be shut down because others can use it in a way that's considered devious. I don't think the phone company should play "morality police" either. I simply expect the phone company to simply provide the service I paid for. This type of thinking strikes as the kind that would damn Gutenberg for inventing the movable-type printing press because print has been used to disseminate propaganda and debauchery to billions of people several centuries later.

finfinfin 5y ago
Amplification not in the electrical signal amplification sense but rather in the sense of amplifying the message. Facebook is giving more visibility to content that it considers more engaging, even if that content leads to harmful outcomes (it’s own research proves that).
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  You were making a point regarding phone-operated sex trafficking. Your characterization of what the phone company should do was what I contended. While, I'm aware that this was made as a broader point regarding Facebook, amplifying a signal and amplifying a message isn't functionally different. Television is an example of where both are happening. Even Twitter and Tiktok engage in amplification every time there's some Tide-pod Challenge. I don't see why Facebook would have to be responsible for how people feel about themselves, what stunts bad actors pull.
  - finfinfin 5y ago
    Right. In the case of phone-operated sex trafficking I don't think amplification is even an option. It's not like phone companies are deciding what phone calls you should be receiving today and are lining them up for you to take part in. So they don't involve algorithmic manipulation (or optimization for engagement), unlike Facebook or other social media. In my parent post I was giving an example of an absurd imaginary situation with phone companies attempting to amplify sex trafficking by directly deciding who will participate in the conversation for the purpose of increasing engagement.