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> I can't agree. Like most rants, I found it to be very emotional and lacking in the technical department It was an accurate assessment of the situation. Read

by csdvrx 5y ago

> I can't agree. Like most rants, I found it to be very emotional and lacking in the technical department It was an accurate assessment of the situation. Read @hpa technical analysis if you prefer, but you'll see he and I seem to concur: there's nothing technically wrong in sixels. > So if you use GNOME, I would say just use that and work on that The difference between you and I is you still believe what they say. I don't. And I question the motives of people associated with a project whose official stance is that it's acceptable to plan technical hurdles to prevent people from using themes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28559716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28559716 > In my opinion, it would be better from a technical standpoint if the author just wanted to work on that I have no interest in wasting hours writing then submitting code to people who have put into writing the reasons why they are playing the clock against sixel support (as if I couldn't have read between the lines...), and who have said previously they would use their positions to veto the inclusion. By default, I no longer trust them. It's up to them to prove they have changed. In the meantime, sixel-tmux will exist to push for change, as a pebble in their shoe. > The degraded-image approach used by this tmux fork is unusable for the cited use case of getting nice graphs in the terminal, and I can't see how it's going to make it any easier for those other terminals to solve the real technical issues with sixel Don't be so focused on one format. There needs to be a foot in the door, after which other formats can be added. It's just a bootstrapping problem. Said differently, if tmux can understand sixels and store them into some internal representation, it's easy to convert from that into other formats as needed (iterm, kitty...) meaning others terminals will enjoy the graphical formats in pixel perfect quality, as long as they support at least one format. Meanwhile, gnome users will be left to wonder why they are left to deal with a derasterized output, and fingers will be pointed into the right direction. Maybe that will encourage the VTE team to do what the users want? If not, it will make it easier for alternatives to emerge (like "foot" for Wayland that was mentioned here) What I'm doing is totally a political move, I grant you that. > solve the real technical issues with sixel. THERE IS NO TECHNICAL ISSUE WITH SIXEL (!!) Try the nyancat linked below. Look at the FPS. 30 fps in the terminal is good enough for most uses. The only issue with sixel is some people hold personal grudges against it. Sorry, but I don't play ball with them anymore.

seg_lol 5y ago
Thank you!
speeddemon 5y ago
Have you read this issue? It goes more into detail about the issues with sixel: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/terminal-wg/specifications/-/issues/26 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/terminal-wg/specifications/-/... If these issues keep coming up, and you keep saying "sixel isn't broken" then we have nothing technical to discuss and it's going off into emotional rant territory. You have to respond to the actual technical concerns. In addition to all those things, the restriction to only paletted images makes it so I personally won't use it, it cannot be used to do any kind of accurate graphics. If you wanted to work on a new protocol that wasn't broken, I think that would be great too. Also I think you are making more erroneous and emotional arguments when you say these things: >And I question the motives of people associated with a project whose official stance is that it's acceptable to plan technical hurdles to prevent people from using themes This is misinformation, GNOME is not preventing people from using themes. I can go into more detail if you like. >I have no interest in wasting hours writing then submitting code to people who have put into writing the reasons why they are playing the clock against sixel support (as if I couldn't have read between the lines...), and who have said previously they would use their positions to veto the inclusion. You don't need to submit any code, you could produce a fork as you already have done. Then once that's done, you could send it to someone else who could get it cleaned up for submission, if you were interested. Please don't fixate on fighting someone or arguing with one person's statements when the actual state of the project contradicts that. >Don't be so focused on one format. There needs to be a foot in the door, after which other formats can be added. It's just a bootstrapping problem. This doesn't make sense, the issue here seems to be the sixel protocol itself, and getting a foot in the door won't help when the format itself is broken. You would need to go back to square one in any case to design a new protocol. I think it's good to have a project that can convert between the different formats, but starting with a baseline of a broken format that doesn't work is just going to ensure that everything stays broken. Also, using sixel to display animations seems like an extremely bad idea. You'll always get horrible performance that way. That to me seems just like it's growing towards a really bad and outdated reinvention of an X11 or RDP-style protocol. I'd say it's a mistake to pursue that. >Maybe that will encourage the VTE team to do what the users want? I posted a link to it, but VTE already has started adding support for Sixel.

by csdvrx 5y ago

seg_lol 5y ago

Thank you!

speeddemon 5y ago

Have you read this issue? It goes more into detail about the issues with sixel: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/terminal-wg/specifications/-/issues/26 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/terminal-wg/specifications/-/... If these issues keep coming up, and you keep saying "sixel isn't broken" then we have nothing technical to discuss and it's going off into emotional rant territory. You have to respond to the actual technical concerns. In addition to all those things, the restriction to only paletted images makes it so I personally won't use it, it cannot be used to do any kind of accurate graphics. If you wanted to work on a new protocol that wasn't broken, I think that would be great too. Also I think you are making more erroneous and emotional arguments when you say these things: >And I question the motives of people associated with a project whose official stance is that it's acceptable to plan technical hurdles to prevent people from using themes This is misinformation, GNOME is not preventing people from using themes. I can go into more detail if you like. >I have no interest in wasting hours writing then submitting code to people who have put into writing the reasons why they are playing the clock against sixel support (as if I couldn't have read between the lines...), and who have said previously they would use their positions to veto the inclusion. You don't need to submit any code, you could produce a fork as you already have done. Then once that's done, you could send it to someone else who could get it cleaned up for submission, if you were interested. Please don't fixate on fighting someone or arguing with one person's statements when the actual state of the project contradicts that. >Don't be so focused on one format. There needs to be a foot in the door, after which other formats can be added. It's just a bootstrapping problem. This doesn't make sense, the issue here seems to be the sixel protocol itself, and getting a foot in the door won't help when the format itself is broken. You would need to go back to square one in any case to design a new protocol. I think it's good to have a project that can convert between the different formats, but starting with a baseline of a broken format that doesn't work is just going to ensure that everything stays broken. Also, using sixel to display animations seems like an extremely bad idea. You'll always get horrible performance that way. That to me seems just like it's growing towards a really bad and outdated reinvention of an X11 or RDP-style protocol. I'd say it's a mistake to pursue that. >Maybe that will encourage the VTE team to do what the users want? I posted a link to it, but VTE already has started adding support for Sixel.