5 ms·

> Require ID verification I'll pass on putting my personal ID in the hands of an organization that sells data as a business. No matter how many flimsy laws the

> Require ID verification I'll pass on putting my personal ID in the hands of an organization that sells data as a business. No matter how many flimsy laws they put in place to ban selling my PII, you'd have to be born yesterday to think that won't just delay the sale this new treasure-trove of information.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>I'll pass on putting my personal ID in the hands of an organization that sells data as a business. I see this as a win for society. The more friction we insert and the more people are discouraged to join these ad-ware social networks the better.
- trutannus 5y ago
  I don't think the average person cares enough, or knows enough about how these organizations operate to actually think past putting their ID in whatever state approved portal you need to use. If people do it willingly, it does not reduce the cost to society of millions personal ID documents leaking or being sold to the highest bidder.
jokowueu 5y ago
HIPAA isn't a flimsy law and works quite well . Something similar can be used
- eh9 5y ago
  Sounds like a big ask porting something like that over to a widely public industry
- trutannus 5y ago
  Right, the difference is medical records don't have a track record of being bought and sold with zero consequence. We're looking to take businesses that operate from the paradigm of "sell first, deal with the fallout later". Not organization that from day one have had a gun to their head if they so much as give the data a sideways look like those under HIPAA.
- ben-gy 5y ago
  HIPAA is PHI - wouldn’t apply in this example
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    > Something similar can be used
Bhilai 5y ago
Have you ever provided your SSN to use a bank or applied for a car loan or mortgage? In all cases you are probably dealing with an entity that would sell your data or atleast share with "affiliates and partners."
- trutannus 5y ago
  Your argument is "well the cat is out of the bag already, so let's make it worse by giving Facebook this sort of data too". We're talking about Facebook here.
zxcvbn4038 5y ago
They probably already have all your data, from Equifax or T-Mobile or whomever else is selling.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Your personal ID contains public information.
- Steltek 5y ago
  My public information is not tied intimately to my behavior and social circles.
  - SavantIdiot 5y ago
    Unless you live in a shed in the Rockies, I got bad news for you.
    - Steltek 5y ago
      Skip the trite cliches, what are you talking about? My driver's license, passport, whatever does not directly encode my relationships other than simple demographics. I'm not under an illusion that I myself am personally anonymous. I'm sure I leave enough breadcrumbs around the Internet but that's my (dubious) choice. However, force me to verify my identity, use my real name, or enter a phone number and I lose that opportunity.
      - SavantIdiot 5y ago
        Every time I swipe my credit card, an intimate profile of who I am and what I do is updated. I don't see the difference between verifying my identity to use a service, and the thousands of other electronic activities I perform on a daily basis that succinctly outline what I do. This nonsense that one more organization asking for ID is somehow the straw the broke the camels back is decades too late. You say you are under no illusions, and then you demonstrate with words that you are under illusions. You don't see it? It is clear as a bell to me.
        trutannus 5y ago
        I still fail to see how this makes the idea of trusting Facebook or any other social media company with my ID any better. What's clear as a bell to me is that, given how Facebook is known to behave reprehensibly, giving them more data is not something we should even be considering. It's a lot like saying "well now, this boat is full of holes, so rather than start patching them, let's just open several new ones".
spywaregorilla 5y ago
They generally don't really sell data, they use your data to sell your eyeballs. The PII you're referring to is a drop in the bucket compared to the content most users are willingly sharing on their own. Yes, they will immediately monetize this information. But if that really bothers you, I'd have to ask if you're actually at all interested in being in the platform at all. The marginal privacy invasion going on here is so tiny compared to the product itself. It doesn't seem like a reasonable counterargument to implementing this as a safeguard.
nonameiguess 5y ago
Not sure all states do this, but the Texas DMV already sells the information on your driver's license to marketers. Not much you can do when the agency that issues identification also sells your data, aside from totally withdraw and don't participate in modern life.
- trutannus 5y ago
  The world isn't Texas. I'd rather not give Facebook extra data to play with because "well, Texas already sells Texan's data".
aeturnum 5y ago
I think this just goes to show how useful some kind of digital identity verification service would be. Giving your ID to a third party isn't that risky (as I hand it over to grocery cashiers all the time) but we certainly have the tech to do better. It would be great to have a system with a municipal agency where you sign up for an account at the DMV and then they will sign low-info attestations of identity ("this person is over 18", "this person resides in California", etc) in response to queries from orgs.
- code_checker4 5y ago
  This. Society evolving to require a service like this sounds great to me.
- gretch 5y ago
  We have a lot of evidence that local/municipal agencies are a huge attack vector for hackers. You have the resources and talent pool of a small city who now has to defend against attacks from all over the planet. Consider the ransomware attacks against the city of Baltimore: https://www.govtech.com/security/for-second-time-in-a-year-baltimore-hit-with-ransomware.html https://www.govtech.com/security/for-second-time-in-a-year-b... I'd much rather my sensitive digital information be stored with FB (knowing how much they spend on cyber security) than the CA DMV.
  - aeturnum 5y ago
    > I'd much rather my sensitive digital information be stored with FB (knowing how much they spend on cyber security) than the CA DMV. I know what you mean and also my information is stored at the DMV if I want a drivers' liscence - we have no choice in the matter. I think we must improve public systems.
- trutannus 5y ago
  Where on earth (quite literally) do you live where you give your ID to cashiers in the grocery stores? Even in alcohol sales, these ID records are not kept. The clerks just look at the ID.
apozem 5y ago
I’m not a Facebook fan, but it is incorrect to say they sell data. They collect data, build a profile of you and your interests and sell access to your eyeballs to advertisers.
chrononaut 5y ago
Perhaps there are ways to do it indirectly? Require a credit card associated with the account that matches the name of the account? (IIRC, you need to be 18+ to get a credit card) (I recognize this goes outside the scope of GP, and this example may not be viable as I'm sure I am forgetting something here.)
fighterpilot 5y ago
What if the government gives each valid person a unique token that they can use to register once per social media site?

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>I'll pass on putting my personal ID in the hands of an organization that sells data as a business. I see this as a win for society. The more friction we insert and the more people are discouraged to join these ad-ware social networks the better.

trutannus 5y ago
I don't think the average person cares enough, or knows enough about how these organizations operate to actually think past putting their ID in whatever state approved portal you need to use. If people do it willingly, it does not reduce the cost to society of millions personal ID documents leaking or being sold to the highest bidder.

jokowueu 5y ago

HIPAA isn't a flimsy law and works quite well . Something similar can be used

eh9 5y ago
Sounds like a big ask porting something like that over to a widely public industry
trutannus 5y ago
Right, the difference is medical records don't have a track record of being bought and sold with zero consequence. We're looking to take businesses that operate from the paradigm of "sell first, deal with the fallout later". Not organization that from day one have had a gun to their head if they so much as give the data a sideways look like those under HIPAA.
ben-gy 5y ago
HIPAA is PHI - wouldn’t apply in this example
- barbazoo 5y ago
  > Something similar can be used

Bhilai 5y ago

Have you ever provided your SSN to use a bank or applied for a car loan or mortgage? In all cases you are probably dealing with an entity that would sell your data or atleast share with "affiliates and partners."

trutannus 5y ago
Your argument is "well the cat is out of the bag already, so let's make it worse by giving Facebook this sort of data too". We're talking about Facebook here.

zxcvbn4038 5y ago

They probably already have all your data, from Equifax or T-Mobile or whomever else is selling.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Your personal ID contains public information.

Steltek 5y ago
My public information is not tied intimately to my behavior and social circles.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  Unless you live in a shed in the Rockies, I got bad news for you.
  - Steltek 5y ago
    Skip the trite cliches, what are you talking about? My driver's license, passport, whatever does not directly encode my relationships other than simple demographics. I'm not under an illusion that I myself am personally anonymous. I'm sure I leave enough breadcrumbs around the Internet but that's my (dubious) choice. However, force me to verify my identity, use my real name, or enter a phone number and I lose that opportunity.
    - SavantIdiot 5y ago
      Every time I swipe my credit card, an intimate profile of who I am and what I do is updated. I don't see the difference between verifying my identity to use a service, and the thousands of other electronic activities I perform on a daily basis that succinctly outline what I do. This nonsense that one more organization asking for ID is somehow the straw the broke the camels back is decades too late. You say you are under no illusions, and then you demonstrate with words that you are under illusions. You don't see it? It is clear as a bell to me.
      - trutannus 5y ago
        I still fail to see how this makes the idea of trusting Facebook or any other social media company with my ID any better. What's clear as a bell to me is that, given how Facebook is known to behave reprehensibly, giving them more data is not something we should even be considering. It's a lot like saying "well now, this boat is full of holes, so rather than start patching them, let's just open several new ones".

spywaregorilla 5y ago

They generally don't really sell data, they use your data to sell your eyeballs. The PII you're referring to is a drop in the bucket compared to the content most users are willingly sharing on their own. Yes, they will immediately monetize this information. But if that really bothers you, I'd have to ask if you're actually at all interested in being in the platform at all. The marginal privacy invasion going on here is so tiny compared to the product itself. It doesn't seem like a reasonable counterargument to implementing this as a safeguard.

nonameiguess 5y ago

Not sure all states do this, but the Texas DMV already sells the information on your driver's license to marketers. Not much you can do when the agency that issues identification also sells your data, aside from totally withdraw and don't participate in modern life.

trutannus 5y ago
The world isn't Texas. I'd rather not give Facebook extra data to play with because "well, Texas already sells Texan's data".

aeturnum 5y ago

I think this just goes to show how useful some kind of digital identity verification service would be. Giving your ID to a third party isn't that risky (as I hand it over to grocery cashiers all the time) but we certainly have the tech to do better. It would be great to have a system with a municipal agency where you sign up for an account at the DMV and then they will sign low-info attestations of identity ("this person is over 18", "this person resides in California", etc) in response to queries from orgs.

code_checker4 5y ago
This. Society evolving to require a service like this sounds great to me.
gretch 5y ago
We have a lot of evidence that local/municipal agencies are a huge attack vector for hackers. You have the resources and talent pool of a small city who now has to defend against attacks from all over the planet. Consider the ransomware attacks against the city of Baltimore: https://www.govtech.com/security/for-second-time-in-a-year-baltimore-hit-with-ransomware.html https://www.govtech.com/security/for-second-time-in-a-year-b... I'd much rather my sensitive digital information be stored with FB (knowing how much they spend on cyber security) than the CA DMV.
- aeturnum 5y ago
  > I'd much rather my sensitive digital information be stored with FB (knowing how much they spend on cyber security) than the CA DMV. I know what you mean and also my information is stored at the DMV if I want a drivers' liscence - we have no choice in the matter. I think we must improve public systems.
trutannus 5y ago
Where on earth (quite literally) do you live where you give your ID to cashiers in the grocery stores? Even in alcohol sales, these ID records are not kept. The clerks just look at the ID.

apozem 5y ago

I’m not a Facebook fan, but it is incorrect to say they sell data. They collect data, build a profile of you and your interests and sell access to your eyeballs to advertisers.

chrononaut 5y ago

Perhaps there are ways to do it indirectly? Require a credit card associated with the account that matches the name of the account? (IIRC, you need to be 18+ to get a credit card) (I recognize this goes outside the scope of GP, and this example may not be viable as I'm sure I am forgetting something here.)

fighterpilot 5y ago

What if the government gives each valid person a unique token that they can use to register once per social media site?