3 ms·

My point is that you can't rely on "decriminalize". "in practice" means that it's still available, no matter how "official" the policy may be, when "felony dis

by anamax 5y ago

My point is that you can't rely on "decriminalize". "in practice" means that it's still available, no matter how "official" the policy may be, when "felony disrespect" is the real issue.

Fnoord 5y ago
That depends on your risk assessment. Everyone can do their own on that one. Here's my take: The likelihood that you get hit by a car is probably higher than you get busted for weed in Santa Cruz. Or The Netherlands, for that matter. I am from The Netherlands. Weed is decriminalized here, too. Many Dutch rely on that, including those who got a lot to lose. Personally, I don't as of now, but I used to in the distant past before I concluded the risk for certain outcome like psychosis is not worth it. I also don't feel the urge anymore.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  The risk of psychosis is higher in moderate coffee or alcohol use than it is with cannabis. The touted psychosis risk is mostly FUD: it only applies to those genetically predisposed to schizophrenia, which is such a strong predisposition that the people with those genes will develop symptoms sooner or later. They also definitely need to avoid coffee, tobacco and alcohol, but somehow there’s not so much ranting and raving going on about that.
  - hackingforfun 5y ago
    I disagree, especially considering high THC strains. In general, coffee, tobacco and alcohol are milder. People can do stupid stuff after having too much alcohol, but I'm not sure I would consider that psychosis. Having too much THC can make someone feel a bit crazy (or maybe a lot crazy). It can even be somewhat psychedelic at higher doses, so there's just some variability there. The thing is that THC can also make people feel pretty relaxed, so they wouldn't necessarily want to go out and do something stupid, but I'm just saying that it isn't a guarantee. I think there is some risk, at least for acute episodes, and I personally don't think it's just FUD.
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      The claim is that THC somehow causes craziness, and it’s usually paired with claims that CBD inhibits those effects. However, see this: https://jcannabisresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42238-020-00051-z https://jcannabisresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186... > Fixed effects regressions showed that, controlling for time-invariant user characteristics, mid and high tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) levels were the primary independent predictor of increased symptom relief, and that when broken out by symptom type, this effect was only statistically significant for our largest sample of users, those reporting anxiety rather than agitation/irritability or stress. Cannabidiol (CBD) levels were generally not associated with changes in symptom intensity levels. In a minority of cannabis use sessions (< 13%), cannabis users reported anxiogenic-related negative side effects (e.g., feeling anxious, irritable, paranoid, rapid pulse, or restless), whereas in a majority of sessions (about 66%), users reported positive anxiolytic side effects (e.g., feeling chill, comfy, happy, optimistic, peaceful, or relaxed). > higher THC levels were the strongest predictors of relief
      - hackingforfun 5y ago
        I agree about THC being a symptom reliever. I myself don't care much for CBD, although I have heard it works for some people. Anyway, I'm just not sure I'd put cannabis in the same class as alcohol, tobacco and coffee, in terms of psychosis risk, although I don't think that cannabis should be federally illegal though either.
        eurasiantiger 5y ago
        I wouldn’t put them in the same category either; psychosis is much more likely with those than with cannabis.
  - Fnoord 5y ago
    As someone with autism diagnosis who had multiple psychosis due to cannabis yet none from alcohol and coffee, I respectfully disagree.
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      You already stated that you are not neurotypical, so why would your anecdotal experience count in a case that concerns everyone? Also, how can you be certain your psychoses were not caused by concommittant use of coffee/alcohol and cannabis? Especially coffee, since it contains monoamine oxidase inhibitors that are known to be stored in brain fatty tissues for months after cessation of use.
- anamax 5y ago
  > The likelihood that you get hit by a car is probably higher than you get busted for weed in Santa Cruz. Even if that's true on average, it isn't necessarily true for everyone. Different people have different risk profiles for different risks. (There are people who wouldn't be arrested for mushrooms in Seattle under the old rules even if they publically dosed a bus full of children while police watched. Meanwhile, there are people who will be arrested if they're in a crosswalk when the light turns yellow.) Moreover, the Netherlands are not Santa Cruz or Seattle.

by anamax 5y ago

My point is that you can't rely on "decriminalize". "in practice" means that it's still available, no matter how "official" the policy may be, when "felony disrespect" is the real issue.

Fnoord 5y ago

That depends on your risk assessment. Everyone can do their own on that one. Here's my take: The likelihood that you get hit by a car is probably higher than you get busted for weed in Santa Cruz. Or The Netherlands, for that matter. I am from The Netherlands. Weed is decriminalized here, too. Many Dutch rely on that, including those who got a lot to lose. Personally, I don't as of now, but I used to in the distant past before I concluded the risk for certain outcome like psychosis is not worth it. I also don't feel the urge anymore.

eurasiantiger 5y ago
The risk of psychosis is higher in moderate coffee or alcohol use than it is with cannabis. The touted psychosis risk is mostly FUD: it only applies to those genetically predisposed to schizophrenia, which is such a strong predisposition that the people with those genes will develop symptoms sooner or later. They also definitely need to avoid coffee, tobacco and alcohol, but somehow there’s not so much ranting and raving going on about that.
- hackingforfun 5y ago
  I disagree, especially considering high THC strains. In general, coffee, tobacco and alcohol are milder. People can do stupid stuff after having too much alcohol, but I'm not sure I would consider that psychosis. Having too much THC can make someone feel a bit crazy (or maybe a lot crazy). It can even be somewhat psychedelic at higher doses, so there's just some variability there. The thing is that THC can also make people feel pretty relaxed, so they wouldn't necessarily want to go out and do something stupid, but I'm just saying that it isn't a guarantee. I think there is some risk, at least for acute episodes, and I personally don't think it's just FUD.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    The claim is that THC somehow causes craziness, and it’s usually paired with claims that CBD inhibits those effects. However, see this: https://jcannabisresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42238-020-00051-z https://jcannabisresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186... > Fixed effects regressions showed that, controlling for time-invariant user characteristics, mid and high tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) levels were the primary independent predictor of increased symptom relief, and that when broken out by symptom type, this effect was only statistically significant for our largest sample of users, those reporting anxiety rather than agitation/irritability or stress. Cannabidiol (CBD) levels were generally not associated with changes in symptom intensity levels. In a minority of cannabis use sessions (< 13%), cannabis users reported anxiogenic-related negative side effects (e.g., feeling anxious, irritable, paranoid, rapid pulse, or restless), whereas in a majority of sessions (about 66%), users reported positive anxiolytic side effects (e.g., feeling chill, comfy, happy, optimistic, peaceful, or relaxed). > higher THC levels were the strongest predictors of relief
    - hackingforfun 5y ago
      I agree about THC being a symptom reliever. I myself don't care much for CBD, although I have heard it works for some people. Anyway, I'm just not sure I'd put cannabis in the same class as alcohol, tobacco and coffee, in terms of psychosis risk, although I don't think that cannabis should be federally illegal though either.
      - eurasiantiger 5y ago
        I wouldn’t put them in the same category either; psychosis is much more likely with those than with cannabis.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  As someone with autism diagnosis who had multiple psychosis due to cannabis yet none from alcohol and coffee, I respectfully disagree.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    You already stated that you are not neurotypical, so why would your anecdotal experience count in a case that concerns everyone? Also, how can you be certain your psychoses were not caused by concommittant use of coffee/alcohol and cannabis? Especially coffee, since it contains monoamine oxidase inhibitors that are known to be stored in brain fatty tissues for months after cessation of use.
anamax 5y ago
> The likelihood that you get hit by a car is probably higher than you get busted for weed in Santa Cruz. Even if that's true on average, it isn't necessarily true for everyone. Different people have different risk profiles for different risks. (There are people who wouldn't be arrested for mushrooms in Seattle under the old rules even if they publically dosed a bus full of children while police watched. Meanwhile, there are people who will be arrested if they're in a crosswalk when the light turns yellow.) Moreover, the Netherlands are not Santa Cruz or Seattle.