6 ms·

My advice now to family is not to rely on anything - assume you'll lose everything and dont worry about it. Concentrate on a few things that actually matter - l

by zz865 5y ago

My advice now to family is not to rely on anything - assume you'll lose everything and dont worry about it. Concentrate on a few things that actually matter - like photos. Buy an external drive and copy all the photos to the drive. Buy a new drive every year or two and put the old one in someone else's house for safe storage.

duxup 5y ago
I'd tack on something like backblaze as well.
- causi 5y ago
  Yeah, Backblaze is pretty great. My desktop is full of hard drives with all my family's files, and everything gets backed up continuously.
  - veidr 5y ago
    I think Backblaze is only great if you are looking for something cheap. It is definitely that, and I am reluctant to complain about it when it backs up my 25TB home server Mac Mini for $60 per year. (Oh, it's $84 now. But whatever, still very cheap.) But I also set up Backblaze for most of my family members, and when my dad's iMac SSD died, even though I physically visited, and even though I had 48 hours there, there was no way to recover the (meager 1TB) contents. I had to use the pretty-trash web UI and could only select something like 25GB at a time, from a super-slow and janky web UI, and then download those files in like dinosaur-time. It did save the day; I could get the most important files (there were like, specific ones on the desktop that my dad was mostly really concerned about). But in my only experience of using Backblaze in actual crisis, it disappointed. I think (though I have never verified) that their option to FedEx a hard disk would have worked, if I had had more time, and that's cool. But I was only there for a couple days, and was trying to set him up with a new Mac Mini to replace the failed iMac. So in the end, we said fuck it, and my dad lost a bunch of his shit. OTOH, 5 or 8 years ago (?), my laptop corrupted my iPhoto library. (Yeah, back in iPhoto time.) I happened to be on a Japanese bullet train from Osaka to Tokyo at the time (editing a Printed Book composition for a gift, and that seemed to be what irrevocably corrupted the iPhoto library). I restored the backed-up iPhoto library (maybe 250GB back then, a tenth of what it is today) to my home Mac and it was restored by the time I got home from the 2.5 hour train ride. But it also cost me something like $180, because I had Arq configured to use AWS Glacier storage, which (at least back then — does it even still exist?) was cheap to put data into and very expensive to get data out of quickly. (IIRC Arq even paused automatically, to avoid this, but I pressed the Continue button.) something something pros and cons
    - mindslight 5y ago
      That's an interesting anecdote about Backblaze, with restoring being such a pain. But could you not have continued downloading 25GB chunks remotely, until everything had been transferred? It seems like you'd only give up if you didn't really care about the rest of the files.
      - veidr 5y ago
        Yes, we almost certainly could have. But it would have been a process that stretched out over many days. So in the end we did give up — the files weren't worth the hassle. But the hassle was considerable.
    - duxup 5y ago
      I feel like in the context of backing up important things paying for the data to be fedexed to you on a drive is a given.
      - veidr 5y ago
        Yeah, I agree, and even would have done so in this case (despite the files not being that "important") but it wouldn't have arrived in time. While I wouldn't say my dad's "not smart" like the title of this thread, he is 70 or whatever, and not technical, and would probably not be able to convert a fedexed HDD from his old iMac to a working setup on his new Mac Mini.
        mindslight 5y ago
        I don't know how your relationship is, but when I was in your position, I set up a remote access solution. For me it was tinc+ssh, but I'm sure there are many equivalent solutions in GUI land that will let you login remotely. It's easy to talk someone through physically plugging in a hard drive, and then you can do the copying yourself. This of course relies on your dad not expecting his computer to be private from you, but I doubt there are many people who aren't technically engaged but expect the utmost in digital privacy.
  - tzs 5y ago
    I almost went with Backblaze, but there does not appear to be a way to restore an encrypted backup without having the decryption take place on their servers [1]: > When you request a data restore, we do what is known as a cloud restore. This simplifies the data restoration process. For example, let’s assume your hard drive crashes and you get a new hard drive or even a new computer. To restore your data you first log in to Backblaze using a web browser by providing your Backblaze account information (email address and password). Once you have logged in to the Backblaze secure web interface you can request a restore of your data. You do not have to install Backblaze to get your data back. To make this work, we decrypt your data on our secure restore servers and we then zip it and send it over an encrypted SSL connection to your computer. Once it arrives on your computer, you can unzip it and you have your data back. That's if you are just using the default setup, which encrypts using a private key that Backblaze generates and manages. You can optionally protect the private key with a passphrase. If you do that, restore changes: > The data restoration process is a cloud restore, similar to the process previously described but with a few differences. To decrypt your data, you are required to enter your passphrase on our secure website. When you do so, it is passed over an encrypted connection to our datacenter where it is used to decrypt your private key, which in turn is used to decrypt your data. Your passphrase is never saved on disk and it is discarded once it is used. As before, once we decrypt your data on our secure restore servers we then zip it and send it over an encrypted SSL connection to your computer. Once it arrives on your computer, you can unzip it and you have your data back. Instead, I decided to buy Arq and use a generic cloud storage service instead of a backup service. I was going to go with Backblaze's B2 for that but then realized that (1) I had 1 TB of OneDrive as part of my Office 365 subscription which had almost nothing on it, (2) OneDrive has an API allowing its use as a generic cloud storage service, and (3) Arq supports that API. I've now got 3 years worth of backups of my 1 TB iMac on OneDrive, using about half of my 1 TB of OneDrive storage. [1] https://www.backblaze.com/backup-encryption.html https://www.backblaze.com/backup-encryption.html
    - estaseuropano 5y ago
      Honestly, what's your threat scenario that a one-time decryption on their servers is a serious concern?
    - 5y ago
maccard 5y ago
Why is that? Is there a history of losing photos from Google or iCloud? Buying a flash drive every year means you don't have a backup between the time you take the photo and your next flash drive, and if your risk profile is dropping your phone down the toilet, that sounds like a bad idea to me. edit: leaving my original comment but I realise that the parent called for buying a new drive every year, not just backing up every year - my bad. That said, with this approach you still need to track where your backups are and when they were last backed up. That's definitely going to be more error prone than an automated system.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > Buying a flash drive every year means you don't have a backup between the time you take the photo and your next flash drive They said buy a new one every year. They didn't say only copy to it once a year.
  - maccard 5y ago
    Doh, good point. You do still have to keep track of those and where they are, (and when they were last backed up to though).
- zz865 5y ago
  That is an alternative. However like you say, Google or iCloud - once you've decided its very difficult to change. Also I think most people aren't used to paying for cloud services like photo storage. I'm not sure what happens if you miss a few payments - do you lose your photos? If you die can anyone else get access? Maybe younger generations are more used to that. Incidentally Google Cloud has lost some of my photos.
  - maccard 5y ago
    > once you've decided its very difficult to change. Can't speak for iCloud, but getting your data out of Google is pretty straightforward - it's well documented at [0]. How often do you want to do this though? > I'm not sure what happens if you miss a few payments - do you lose your photos? A quick google answers this question [1], if you stop paying and ignore the messages for 2 years your data _may_ be deleted. > If you die can anyone else get access? Again, a quick google says yes, if you set it up [2]. > Incidentally Google Cloud has lost some of my photos. What do you mean by this? Google cloud or Google Photos? I would love to hear more about google photos losing data, I've _never_ heard of it (yet I have witnessed bit rot on physical media, or flash drives just getting lost). [0] https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190 https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190 [1] https://support.google.com/drive/answer/2736362 https://support.google.com/drive/answer/2736362 [2] https://support.google.com/accounts/troubleshooter/6357590 https://support.google.com/accounts/troubleshooter/6357590
ubermonkey 5y ago
>assume you'll lose everything and dont worry about it. I completely reject this premise. I'm baffled why you think it's reasonable, honestly. In backups, even for simple people, one is none and two is one. Online services are DEAD cheap, and can provide versioned backup that protects against creeping corruption and the like. Single drive backup plans are malpractice.
- turtlebits 5y ago
  Less is more. The point OP was trying to make is to keep what is vital. People already have way too many possessions, digital hoarding is even easier. Please fail to realize the mental toll there is from keeping things you don't need.
- mindslight 5y ago
  I reject that premise on functionality. I doubt anyone would be happy losing all of their financial records, photos, personal correspondence, etc. If digital records aren't your long term secure storage, then what is? Paper printouts? With "really important" ones in a safe or safe deposit box? That is much harder to manage - for backups, organization, and retrieval - than having a digital source of truth and a few redundant backups. And honestly once you're getting into someone "less able, cognitively impaired, or perhaps very young" to the point where they can't even manage productized cloud solutions, then they really need someone more capable that's involved in managing their (digital) life.
- zz865 5y ago
  One thing is people are worried about losing their old mail and statements and tax returns - its actually pretty liberating to have disk crash and realize you dont need any of that.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    It’s not so great when the IRS audits you. Backups are cheap insurance. Relying on luck is not a great strategy when backups are now cheap in every way imaginable.

by zz865 5y ago

duxup 5y ago

I'd tack on something like backblaze as well.

causi 5y ago
Yeah, Backblaze is pretty great. My desktop is full of hard drives with all my family's files, and everything gets backed up continuously.
- veidr 5y ago
  I think Backblaze is only great if you are looking for something cheap. It is definitely that, and I am reluctant to complain about it when it backs up my 25TB home server Mac Mini for $60 per year. (Oh, it's $84 now. But whatever, still very cheap.) But I also set up Backblaze for most of my family members, and when my dad's iMac SSD died, even though I physically visited, and even though I had 48 hours there, there was no way to recover the (meager 1TB) contents. I had to use the pretty-trash web UI and could only select something like 25GB at a time, from a super-slow and janky web UI, and then download those files in like dinosaur-time. It did save the day; I could get the most important files (there were like, specific ones on the desktop that my dad was mostly really concerned about). But in my only experience of using Backblaze in actual crisis, it disappointed. I think (though I have never verified) that their option to FedEx a hard disk would have worked, if I had had more time, and that's cool. But I was only there for a couple days, and was trying to set him up with a new Mac Mini to replace the failed iMac. So in the end, we said fuck it, and my dad lost a bunch of his shit. OTOH, 5 or 8 years ago (?), my laptop corrupted my iPhoto library. (Yeah, back in iPhoto time.) I happened to be on a Japanese bullet train from Osaka to Tokyo at the time (editing a Printed Book composition for a gift, and that seemed to be what irrevocably corrupted the iPhoto library). I restored the backed-up iPhoto library (maybe 250GB back then, a tenth of what it is today) to my home Mac and it was restored by the time I got home from the 2.5 hour train ride. But it also cost me something like $180, because I had Arq configured to use AWS Glacier storage, which (at least back then — does it even still exist?) was cheap to put data into and very expensive to get data out of quickly. (IIRC Arq even paused automatically, to avoid this, but I pressed the Continue button.) something something pros and cons
  - mindslight 5y ago
    That's an interesting anecdote about Backblaze, with restoring being such a pain. But could you not have continued downloading 25GB chunks remotely, until everything had been transferred? It seems like you'd only give up if you didn't really care about the rest of the files.
    - veidr 5y ago
      Yes, we almost certainly could have. But it would have been a process that stretched out over many days. So in the end we did give up — the files weren't worth the hassle. But the hassle was considerable.
  - duxup 5y ago
    I feel like in the context of backing up important things paying for the data to be fedexed to you on a drive is a given.
    - veidr 5y ago
      Yeah, I agree, and even would have done so in this case (despite the files not being that "important") but it wouldn't have arrived in time. While I wouldn't say my dad's "not smart" like the title of this thread, he is 70 or whatever, and not technical, and would probably not be able to convert a fedexed HDD from his old iMac to a working setup on his new Mac Mini.
      - mindslight 5y ago
        I don't know how your relationship is, but when I was in your position, I set up a remote access solution. For me it was tinc+ssh, but I'm sure there are many equivalent solutions in GUI land that will let you login remotely. It's easy to talk someone through physically plugging in a hard drive, and then you can do the copying yourself. This of course relies on your dad not expecting his computer to be private from you, but I doubt there are many people who aren't technically engaged but expect the utmost in digital privacy.
- tzs 5y ago
  I almost went with Backblaze, but there does not appear to be a way to restore an encrypted backup without having the decryption take place on their servers [1]: > When you request a data restore, we do what is known as a cloud restore. This simplifies the data restoration process. For example, let’s assume your hard drive crashes and you get a new hard drive or even a new computer. To restore your data you first log in to Backblaze using a web browser by providing your Backblaze account information (email address and password). Once you have logged in to the Backblaze secure web interface you can request a restore of your data. You do not have to install Backblaze to get your data back. To make this work, we decrypt your data on our secure restore servers and we then zip it and send it over an encrypted SSL connection to your computer. Once it arrives on your computer, you can unzip it and you have your data back. That's if you are just using the default setup, which encrypts using a private key that Backblaze generates and manages. You can optionally protect the private key with a passphrase. If you do that, restore changes: > The data restoration process is a cloud restore, similar to the process previously described but with a few differences. To decrypt your data, you are required to enter your passphrase on our secure website. When you do so, it is passed over an encrypted connection to our datacenter where it is used to decrypt your private key, which in turn is used to decrypt your data. Your passphrase is never saved on disk and it is discarded once it is used. As before, once we decrypt your data on our secure restore servers we then zip it and send it over an encrypted SSL connection to your computer. Once it arrives on your computer, you can unzip it and you have your data back. Instead, I decided to buy Arq and use a generic cloud storage service instead of a backup service. I was going to go with Backblaze's B2 for that but then realized that (1) I had 1 TB of OneDrive as part of my Office 365 subscription which had almost nothing on it, (2) OneDrive has an API allowing its use as a generic cloud storage service, and (3) Arq supports that API. I've now got 3 years worth of backups of my 1 TB iMac on OneDrive, using about half of my 1 TB of OneDrive storage. [1] https://www.backblaze.com/backup-encryption.html https://www.backblaze.com/backup-encryption.html
  - estaseuropano 5y ago
    Honestly, what's your threat scenario that a one-time decryption on their servers is a serious concern?
  - 5y ago

maccard 5y ago

Why is that? Is there a history of losing photos from Google or iCloud? Buying a flash drive every year means you don't have a backup between the time you take the photo and your next flash drive, and if your risk profile is dropping your phone down the toilet, that sounds like a bad idea to me. edit: leaving my original comment but I realise that the parent called for buying a new drive every year, not just backing up every year - my bad. That said, with this approach you still need to track where your backups are and when they were last backed up. That's definitely going to be more error prone than an automated system.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> Buying a flash drive every year means you don't have a backup between the time you take the photo and your next flash drive They said buy a new one every year. They didn't say only copy to it once a year.
- maccard 5y ago
  Doh, good point. You do still have to keep track of those and where they are, (and when they were last backed up to though).
zz865 5y ago
That is an alternative. However like you say, Google or iCloud - once you've decided its very difficult to change. Also I think most people aren't used to paying for cloud services like photo storage. I'm not sure what happens if you miss a few payments - do you lose your photos? If you die can anyone else get access? Maybe younger generations are more used to that. Incidentally Google Cloud has lost some of my photos.
- maccard 5y ago
  > once you've decided its very difficult to change. Can't speak for iCloud, but getting your data out of Google is pretty straightforward - it's well documented at [0]. How often do you want to do this though? > I'm not sure what happens if you miss a few payments - do you lose your photos? A quick google answers this question [1], if you stop paying and ignore the messages for 2 years your data _may_ be deleted. > If you die can anyone else get access? Again, a quick google says yes, if you set it up [2]. > Incidentally Google Cloud has lost some of my photos. What do you mean by this? Google cloud or Google Photos? I would love to hear more about google photos losing data, I've _never_ heard of it (yet I have witnessed bit rot on physical media, or flash drives just getting lost). [0] https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190 https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190 [1] https://support.google.com/drive/answer/2736362 https://support.google.com/drive/answer/2736362 [2] https://support.google.com/accounts/troubleshooter/6357590 https://support.google.com/accounts/troubleshooter/6357590

ubermonkey 5y ago

>assume you'll lose everything and dont worry about it. I completely reject this premise. I'm baffled why you think it's reasonable, honestly. In backups, even for simple people, one is none and two is one. Online services are DEAD cheap, and can provide versioned backup that protects against creeping corruption and the like. Single drive backup plans are malpractice.

turtlebits 5y ago
Less is more. The point OP was trying to make is to keep what is vital. People already have way too many possessions, digital hoarding is even easier. Please fail to realize the mental toll there is from keeping things you don't need.
mindslight 5y ago
I reject that premise on functionality. I doubt anyone would be happy losing all of their financial records, photos, personal correspondence, etc. If digital records aren't your long term secure storage, then what is? Paper printouts? With "really important" ones in a safe or safe deposit box? That is much harder to manage - for backups, organization, and retrieval - than having a digital source of truth and a few redundant backups. And honestly once you're getting into someone "less able, cognitively impaired, or perhaps very young" to the point where they can't even manage productized cloud solutions, then they really need someone more capable that's involved in managing their (digital) life.
zz865 5y ago
One thing is people are worried about losing their old mail and statements and tax returns - its actually pretty liberating to have disk crash and realize you dont need any of that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- chaostheory 5y ago
  It’s not so great when the IRS audits you. Backups are cheap insurance. Relying on luck is not a great strategy when backups are now cheap in every way imaginable.