4 ms·

The title says decriminalize, not legalize. Decriminalize means that in effect (in practice) the police are busy enough that it is equal to it being legal, and

by Fnoord 5y ago

The title says decriminalize, not legalize. Decriminalize means that in effect (in practice) the police are busy enough that it is equal to it being legal, and this policy is official. There's a difference between decriminalized on paper, and decriminalized in practice. In practice, something can be decriminalized even though it isn't official policy. Such an official policy is still different from legal. IIRC in Santa Cruz drugs like cannabis have been decriminalized for a long time this way (2005?). And probably other drugs as well.

anamax 5y ago
My point is that you can't rely on "decriminalize". "in practice" means that it's still available, no matter how "official" the policy may be, when "felony disrespect" is the real issue.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  That depends on your risk assessment. Everyone can do their own on that one. Here's my take: The likelihood that you get hit by a car is probably higher than you get busted for weed in Santa Cruz. Or The Netherlands, for that matter. I am from The Netherlands. Weed is decriminalized here, too. Many Dutch rely on that, including those who got a lot to lose. Personally, I don't as of now, but I used to in the distant past before I concluded the risk for certain outcome like psychosis is not worth it. I also don't feel the urge anymore.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    The risk of psychosis is higher in moderate coffee or alcohol use than it is with cannabis. The touted psychosis risk is mostly FUD: it only applies to those genetically predisposed to schizophrenia, which is such a strong predisposition that the people with those genes will develop symptoms sooner or later. They also definitely need to avoid coffee, tobacco and alcohol, but somehow there’s not so much ranting and raving going on about that.
    - hackingforfun 5y ago
      I disagree, especially considering high THC strains. In general, coffee, tobacco and alcohol are milder. People can do stupid stuff after having too much alcohol, but I'm not sure I would consider that psychosis. Having too much THC can make someone feel a bit crazy (or maybe a lot crazy). It can even be somewhat psychedelic at higher doses, so there's just some variability there. The thing is that THC can also make people feel pretty relaxed, so they wouldn't necessarily want to go out and do something stupid, but I'm just saying that it isn't a guarantee. I think there is some risk, at least for acute episodes, and I personally don't think it's just FUD.
      - eurasiantiger 5y ago
        The claim is that THC somehow causes craziness, and it’s usually paired with claims that CBD inhibits those effects. However, see this: https://jcannabisresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42238-020-00051-z https://jcannabisresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186... > Fixed effects regressions showed that, controlling for time-invariant user characteristics, mid and high tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) levels were the primary independent predictor of increased symptom relief, and that when broken out by symptom type, this effect was only statistically significant for our largest sample of users, those reporting anxiety rather than agitation/irritability or stress. Cannabidiol (CBD) levels were generally not associated with changes in symptom intensity levels. In a minority of cannabis use sessions (< 13%), cannabis users reported anxiogenic-related negative side effects (e.g., feeling anxious, irritable, paranoid, rapid pulse, or restless), whereas in a majority of sessions (about 66%), users reported positive anxiolytic side effects (e.g., feeling chill, comfy, happy, optimistic, peaceful, or relaxed). > higher THC levels were the strongest predictors of relief
        hackingforfun 5y ago
        I agree about THC being a symptom reliever. I myself don't care much for CBD, although I have heard it works for some people. Anyway, I'm just not sure I'd put cannabis in the same class as alcohol, tobacco and coffee, in terms of psychosis risk, although I don't think that cannabis should be federally illegal though either.
  - anamax 5y ago
    > The likelihood that you get hit by a car is probably higher than you get busted for weed in Santa Cruz. Even if that's true on average, it isn't necessarily true for everyone. Different people have different risk profiles for different risks. (There are people who wouldn't be arrested for mushrooms in Seattle under the old rules even if they publically dosed a bus full of children while police watched. Meanwhile, there are people who will be arrested if they're in a crosswalk when the light turns yellow.) Moreover, the Netherlands are not Santa Cruz or Seattle.

by Fnoord 5y ago

anamax 5y ago

My point is that you can't rely on "decriminalize". "in practice" means that it's still available, no matter how "official" the policy may be, when "felony disrespect" is the real issue.

Fnoord 5y ago
That depends on your risk assessment. Everyone can do their own on that one. Here's my take: The likelihood that you get hit by a car is probably higher than you get busted for weed in Santa Cruz. Or The Netherlands, for that matter. I am from The Netherlands. Weed is decriminalized here, too. Many Dutch rely on that, including those who got a lot to lose. Personally, I don't as of now, but I used to in the distant past before I concluded the risk for certain outcome like psychosis is not worth it. I also don't feel the urge anymore.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  The risk of psychosis is higher in moderate coffee or alcohol use than it is with cannabis. The touted psychosis risk is mostly FUD: it only applies to those genetically predisposed to schizophrenia, which is such a strong predisposition that the people with those genes will develop symptoms sooner or later. They also definitely need to avoid coffee, tobacco and alcohol, but somehow there’s not so much ranting and raving going on about that.
  - hackingforfun 5y ago
    I disagree, especially considering high THC strains. In general, coffee, tobacco and alcohol are milder. People can do stupid stuff after having too much alcohol, but I'm not sure I would consider that psychosis. Having too much THC can make someone feel a bit crazy (or maybe a lot crazy). It can even be somewhat psychedelic at higher doses, so there's just some variability there. The thing is that THC can also make people feel pretty relaxed, so they wouldn't necessarily want to go out and do something stupid, but I'm just saying that it isn't a guarantee. I think there is some risk, at least for acute episodes, and I personally don't think it's just FUD.
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      The claim is that THC somehow causes craziness, and it’s usually paired with claims that CBD inhibits those effects. However, see this: https://jcannabisresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42238-020-00051-z https://jcannabisresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186... > Fixed effects regressions showed that, controlling for time-invariant user characteristics, mid and high tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) levels were the primary independent predictor of increased symptom relief, and that when broken out by symptom type, this effect was only statistically significant for our largest sample of users, those reporting anxiety rather than agitation/irritability or stress. Cannabidiol (CBD) levels were generally not associated with changes in symptom intensity levels. In a minority of cannabis use sessions (< 13%), cannabis users reported anxiogenic-related negative side effects (e.g., feeling anxious, irritable, paranoid, rapid pulse, or restless), whereas in a majority of sessions (about 66%), users reported positive anxiolytic side effects (e.g., feeling chill, comfy, happy, optimistic, peaceful, or relaxed). > higher THC levels were the strongest predictors of relief
      - hackingforfun 5y ago
        I agree about THC being a symptom reliever. I myself don't care much for CBD, although I have heard it works for some people. Anyway, I'm just not sure I'd put cannabis in the same class as alcohol, tobacco and coffee, in terms of psychosis risk, although I don't think that cannabis should be federally illegal though either.
- anamax 5y ago
  > The likelihood that you get hit by a car is probably higher than you get busted for weed in Santa Cruz. Even if that's true on average, it isn't necessarily true for everyone. Different people have different risk profiles for different risks. (There are people who wouldn't be arrested for mushrooms in Seattle under the old rules even if they publically dosed a bus full of children while police watched. Meanwhile, there are people who will be arrested if they're in a crosswalk when the light turns yellow.) Moreover, the Netherlands are not Santa Cruz or Seattle.