14 ms·

Ask HN: How should I back up data on devices if I'm not smart?

123 points by bloqs 5y ago

If someone is a less able, cognitively impaired, or perhaps very young - It would be good to see what advice HN would give them for protecting their data from ransomware, theft, or disaster.

sneak 5y ago
Backblaze is ideal for this use case.
Dumblydorr 5y ago
If you don't care about privacy and allowing some company holding it, just use free services like Google Photos or Dropbox, any cloud storage would be fine.
- theandrewbailey 5y ago
  That might work until the ML-based content scanners find something[0] they don't like and close all the accounts. [0] those things are undocumented, and the scanners have high rates of false positives
  - codazoda 5y ago
    I get your point, but this still works because your files are safely on your own machine. Just switch the solution when this happens.
jan_Inkepa 5y ago
It depends so much on the devices. The easiest option is going to be the one that's built into the device/OS/etc. That's not maybe a very useful answer, but there you have it.
howolduis 5y ago
Rclone. https://rclone.org/commands/rclone_sync/ https://rclone.org/commands/rclone_sync/ Configure cron jobs to run automatically so they dont have to do anything on their end. Even if you're on a mobile device, you can install a terminal emulator and run rclone there.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- michaelgrafl 5y ago
  Cool idea, but I don't think it's quite simple enough for OP.
  - howolduis 5y ago
    I thought OP was setting up a backup for someone else
- ramses0 5y ago
  FYI `rclone` is good for "dumb content" in that it doesn't keep execute bits on shell-scripts, etc.
endisneigh 5y ago
Setup OneDrive or equivalent. Treat it as your file system - do not, ever save anything in any folder that's not a child of the OneDrive folder. Done. If you're somewhat capable you could even set it up so the entirety of your OneDrive or equivalent is copied to another provider.
gumby 5y ago
For those advocating auto-syncing cloud systems like Dropbox, OneDrive or iCloud: what kind of files are not safe? I remember that DB famously had to make special provision for Outlook files — is that kind of thing still the case?
asciimov 5y ago
iCloud or OneDrive. In either case it has to be automated.
988747 5y ago
I will go on a limb and say: buy them an iPhone and a Macbook and teach them how to use iCloud for backups. For cognitively imparied people you cannot do much better than that.
zz865 5y ago
My advice now to family is not to rely on anything - assume you'll lose everything and dont worry about it. Concentrate on a few things that actually matter - like photos. Buy an external drive and copy all the photos to the drive. Buy a new drive every year or two and put the old one in someone else's house for safe storage.
- duxup 5y ago
  I'd tack on something like backblaze as well.
  - causi 5y ago
    Yeah, Backblaze is pretty great. My desktop is full of hard drives with all my family's files, and everything gets backed up continuously.
    - veidr 5y ago
      I think Backblaze is only great if you are looking for something cheap. It is definitely that, and I am reluctant to complain about it when it backs up my 25TB home server Mac Mini for $60 per year. (Oh, it's $84 now. But whatever, still very cheap.) But I also set up Backblaze for most of my family members, and when my dad's iMac SSD died, even though I physically visited, and even though I had 48 hours there, there was no way to recover the (meager 1TB) contents. I had to use the pretty-trash web UI and could only select something like 25GB at a time, from a super-slow and janky web UI, and then download those files in like dinosaur-time. It did save the day; I could get the most important files (there were like, specific ones on the desktop that my dad was mostly really concerned about). But in my only experience of using Backblaze in actual crisis, it disappointed. I think (though I have never verified) that their option to FedEx a hard disk would have worked, if I had had more time, and that's cool. But I was only there for a couple days, and was trying to set him up with a new Mac Mini to replace the failed iMac. So in the end, we said fuck it, and my dad lost a bunch of his shit. OTOH, 5 or 8 years ago (?), my laptop corrupted my iPhoto library. (Yeah, back in iPhoto time.) I happened to be on a Japanese bullet train from Osaka to Tokyo at the time (editing a Printed Book composition for a gift, and that seemed to be what irrevocably corrupted the iPhoto library). I restored the backed-up iPhoto library (maybe 250GB back then, a tenth of what it is today) to my home Mac and it was restored by the time I got home from the 2.5 hour train ride. But it also cost me something like $180, because I had Arq configured to use AWS Glacier storage, which (at least back then — does it even still exist?) was cheap to put data into and very expensive to get data out of quickly. (IIRC Arq even paused automatically, to avoid this, but I pressed the Continue button.) something something pros and cons
cybernautique 5y ago
Syncthing helps prevent against theft and disaster. Syncthing with an offline backup policy helps mitigate against ransomware, but unfortunately any policy that moves bits from one place to another allows an attack vector for malicious bits to infect the target device to which bits are being transferred.
- playpause 5y ago
  I personally found Syncthing too complex, unpolished and confusing to be worth it, and I am an experienced software engineer in my 30s. And you’re recommending it for people who are “cognitively impaired, less able” etc? Absolutely silly.
  - cybernautique 5y ago
    I'm not sure what your experience was or how long ago, but syncthing is one of very few programs I've ever had 'just work,' like absolute magic. sudo pacman -S syncthing, syncthing was all it took to stand it up, followed by extremely minimal in-app setup that was no more complex than working a modern music player. It keeps everything synced across my PCs and my mobile without any intervention on my part.
    - playpause 5y ago
      Again, given “cognitive difficulties” etc, you lost me at “sudo” :)
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Are you serious? Syncthing's setup comprises of quite literally two steps: - getting both devices on the same network - scan the QR code on one device with another After that, I've also found that it "just works" on the level of Dropbox or Google Drive. Honestly, I've had more problems trying to get iCloud or OneDrive to work as WebDAV.
    - canada_dry 5y ago
peter-m80 5y ago
In that case I'd recommend to use a paid service like Dropbox (or Google Drive, or any alternative). Store your files in the dropbox folder and they will be safe (plus sync across devices and file history).
- maccard 5y ago
  Dropbox and Google drive will happily delete your files if you copy over them by accident. They're not really a backup service.
  - codazoda 5y ago
    Dropbox allows you to restore previous files, for a time, using their web interface.
  - rPlayer6554 5y ago
    Right now I just have Dropbox, but soon I plan to get a NAS and just have it sync to Dropbox. That way I get the convience of Dropbox while also still having a backup if Dropbox fails.
    - justusthane 5y ago
      That's still not a backup though. If you delete or corrupt a file from your NAS, that change will be synced to Dropbox. Backup and sync are two different things.
      - aborsy 5y ago
        But Dropbox has file version history and folder rewind.
rspoerri 5y ago
There are 2 big problems: - Data is destroyed - Data is abused (somebody uses it against you in some way) Disaster destroys, theft & ransomware destroys and/or abuses your data Security against "abusing your data" is afaik: encrypting your data, using different passwords, never trust a link in an email (allways use the links you commonly use). BUT: this is difficult and unlikely done even by a average user. Security against losing data is: backup or sync : backup is done best to my knowledge in apple devices. it also features sync. othervise i'd recommend dropbox, it can also recover some of the data you accidentially delete. printing things is also still a good backup of important data
monkey_monkey 5y ago
Backblaze + the Forever Version History feature essentially gives immutable backups of every version of a file, which is a hard counter to ransomware.
- bradfa 5y ago
  This is what I do for our family computer. All our photos and videos are on the family computer, it continuously backs up to backblaze with forever history and we push all our photos and videos to Google Photos, too. We print the photos we really like and put them in albums. If our house burns down and we lose the albums and computer, we still have Google Photos and backblaze. If either Google or backblaze end their relationship with us, we still have our local copies and albums (and the other service). We do pay for Google storage and for backblaze, but I think it comes out to around $12/month.
rxdazn 5y ago
backblaze will silently sync up files, and it also backs up any external devices that you plug into your computer
- orr721 5y ago
  And then after 4 years of backing up (and paying) you find out that BackBlaze silently changed their password requirements and you can no longer log in. Happened to me, lost 2 TB of backed family photos. Their response: "you remember your password wrong". Fortunately I had backups on secondary external drives as well.
  - newusertoday 5y ago
    you forgot your password or your password was correct but it stopped working because they changed the requirement?
    - orr721 5y ago
      My password was correct but included accented characters. They changed the acceptable characters silently in their clients sometime later. After my backing machine finally crashed I was not able to log in again. Unfortunately the support guys were not able to do anything about it.
ubermonkey 5y ago
You don't have to be smart do to this. You just have to find some tools and services that are "fire and forget." This is what I do: 1. All my working files are in my Dropbox account (or my corporate Dropbox account). I did this initially to support working off two machines interchangeably, but the fact of the matter is that this creates an easy versioned backup of your "live" files. Nowadays, my Dropbox is fully mirrored on TWO backup computers here in my office (ie, a spare machine and an old machine). Setup Effort: Minimal. Ongoing Effort: Almost zero. 2. Because I use a Mac, I have Time Machine. It's glorious and can save your butt. It's the ONLY of these mechanisms I've ever had to use at scale (after a break-in and a stolen laptop). It worked flawlessly. Use it if you can. Every year or so, I get a new TM drive and archive the old one. Setup Effort: VERY Minimal. Ongoing Effort: Zero. 3. I also use Backblaze for offsite backup security. I happen to live on the gulf coast, so major storms are a concern, but there's probably some house-eating danger wherever YOU live. Setup Effort: Moderate. Ongoing Effort: Minimal. 4. Finally -- and this is the only part that needs actual action -- periodically I take a full image backup of my main machine's drive and archive it. Setup Effort: Moderate. Ongoing Effort: Moderate. I keep my newest image and my last TM drive in someone else's house, too, but that MAY be paranoia.
- cloogshicer 5y ago
  How do you do Time Machine backups without ongoing effort? Do you backup to a network drive or something like that?
  - extra88 5y ago
    What effort? It runs automatically every hour. They include that they buy a new drive on which backups are written and archive the old one. Presumably they buy drives that are big enough to have a full backup and a reasonable about of space for the diffs (a drive 50% larger than the one being backed up is typically sufficient). Since Time Machine is in addition to other backup methods, they don't need to make an effort to keep a Time Machine drive offsite.
    - cloogshicer 5y ago
woofcat 5y ago
https://www.carbonite.com/ https://www.carbonite.com/ It's a paid solution but simple enough for my mother.
- Noumenon72 5y ago
  This is how I do it and my work does too, with Druva. You don't have to think about a single thing except telling it if you store files in weird places. Could not be simpler.
jdavis703 5y ago
Preferably they won’t be using devices vulnerable to ransomware. So have them run a tablet with iPadOS or Android. But make sure it’s from a manufacturer that quickly provides security patches (Apple, Google Pixel, etc). Then if you can lock the device down to child safety mode and combine it with corporate security settings. Then enable iCloud backup (or whatever the Android equivalent is.)
kylehotchkiss 5y ago
Encrypted Time Machine on Mac OS is a good start. By no means a perfect solution, but it's free if you have an external drive (even an older one). If the drive is clean, the setup process will take under 5 minutes. I just run it once a month, putting an event in calendar to remind me to do the next. If money isn't an issue, BackBlaze's options are interesting. Check out Arq backup too. Once you get either Backblaze or Arq backup, you can backup your backup drive of time machine images. Not terribly efficient, sure, but again, doesn't really require too much configuration. Minimizing friction for each step and trying to automate them are the best paths to success. If this is a mobile device, iCloud for photos is a good enough options for most people. Yeah, apple's gonna scan, but so is Google Photos, or any other service that uploads images to the internet. I really wish apple would do an E2EE time machine to the cloud one day! That would really unlock backups for a lot more less technical people.
- sircastor 5y ago
  Supposedly part of the on-device CSAM stuff was so they could do End to end encryption on iCloud backups. I get why people were upset about it, but I worry it comes at the cost of that E2EE feature.
omarhaneef 5y ago
I should say that the advice is not just for the cognitively impaired but also regular people, and even smart, technically adept people. As an analogy, you might be the greatest surgeon in the world but you may still want to ask a nutritionist to help you make sense of the varying, contradictory studies that come in. The problem you have identified also effects the cognitively overwhelmed which is all of us.
65 5y ago
Old school: get an external SSD, drag and drop files. New school: get a Macbook and an iPhone and use iCloud. For programmers: Make an auto-backup script to an S3 bucket for very cheap storage, backing up only what you want (e.g. adding a flag to ignore node_modules when backing up your computer).
- aborsy 5y ago
  S3 is not cheap, it’s among the most expensive due to egress fees.
  - 65 5y ago
    Good point - Digital Ocean Spaces is a cheaper alternative while still using S3.
more_corn 5y ago
I steer people who don't know technology to Apple and mac. Enabling and paying for iCloud backup is probably the easiest. We're basically to the point where you can throw your phone off the bridge, walk into the Apple Store, log into a new phone and be back where you started. For a laptop I like the ease of the Time Capsule and time machine.
- willidiots 5y ago
  More broadly I think this speaks to the power of defaults. I recently had a family member lose everything (house fire) including all of his iDevices. He thought he'd lost the photos on them - he didn't even know he had iCloud backups - but as soon as we got a new device on his account, there they were.
comeonseriously 5y ago
To the people recommending iCloud. I don't think that iCloud should be considered a backup. You can far too easily delete stuff from your phone that also gets deleted from iCloud when you do. For people not prepared for this, they will have just lost something important.
- CharlesW 5y ago
  FWIW, iCloud retains deleted photos and files for 30 days. https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/23/recover-lost-icloud-documents-files/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/23/recover-lost-icloud-documents...
bodge5000 5y ago
I just go off backblaze and gut feeling. Basically I have backblaze backup my data daily, if theres anything I really want to make sure is safe, I back that up elsewhere, and if its something I REALLY want to make sure is safe, I'll also put it on a local disk. If I ever got to the point where I REALLY REALLY want to make sure its safe, I'd probably try to keep a local version in someone elses house, but it hasn't come to that yet. I know many here will say thats being negligent or whatever, I don't really care too much, I'd rather just get on with my life than jump through a load of hoops for data that I'm not too fussed about losing.
runnerup 5y ago
The free version of Veamm has always worked amazingly well for me through all of its name changes.
joshuajill 5y ago
Any more ideas for Android? I find it more and more complicated to back up my personal data from Android without having to upload everything to Google.
spansoa 5y ago
If your most important of important files don't exceed 2GB then a Dropbox free account is a no-brainer. If you have important files that are roughly ~100GB, Google Drive is only EUR 20 per year to upgrade from their 15Gb free tier to their 100GB offering. Again, a no-brainer. If you're concerned about the privacy of your files on cloud services, then use Cryptomator[0]. Cryptomator is for more advanced users and you need to read the DOCs before using it. Personally though, I found the interface intuitive and I don't consider myself that smart (depending on your definition of that term). [0] https://cryptomator.org/ https://cryptomator.org/
- paulpauper 5y ago
  that is fine if you dont mind dropbox deleting for innactivity
gwbas1c 5y ago
With web applications, this question is significantly harder to answer. Assuming they're using files on a desktop computer, find a magic backup or sync product. They all have pros and cons. I used to develop Syncplicity. It could backup "My Documents" and "Desktop" automatically, but you still had to manually add folders outside of those defaults. It was useful for a "magic backup" of things that could upload and download easily; but it wasn't going to just snapshot an entire computer. If you want to snapshot an entire computer, a lot of posts in the thread recommend Time Machine for Mac. Just understand the tradeoffs: Do you want to snapshot the entire computer, but you don't care about "cloud" features? Do you want "cloud" features like sharing, backup even when you're not home, but you don't care about restoring a computer to an exact point in time?
handrous 5y ago
What do folks use to ensure integrity? I messed around with CRC32 in the filename for a while, but that's a pain to keep up with. Lots of fiddly custom scripts involved. It's dead-simple if everything is on ZFS all the time, of course, but if you want to ensure that files haven't been damaged after 20 copies across as many drives and "cloud" services, ideally without having to drag two or more other copies out of wherever they're stored, what's the solution? Some formats (Flac, I think) embed a hash in the metadata, but most don't. Hell, I've considered putting everything in IPFS just so I get consistency hashing across all filesystems "for free". More generally, I guess the problem is that there's a lot of pain and duplicated effort all over the place due to there still not being a really good, well-supported, cross-FS and cross-OS file metadata scheme.
zoomablemind 5y ago
You need to define "data" in this use-case. General idea should be to treat the computer as a dispensable unit, kind of local cache of primary data which is remote. It is backwards, but this entrusts the "data" into more able and knowledgeable care. As an example, look no further as mobile/smartphone etc. platforms. The locally acquired data is automatically transferred to some online cloud. All needed for that is a steady and fast internet and suffucient quotas. Should the disaster hit, at least the bulk of "data" would be duplicated in the cloud(s). Assuming the cloud providers are mainstream, chances are the data could be retrievable from the new/repaired computer. All comes down to the definition and the value of the "data". Also, makes sense to have a practical way to keep an inventory of the installed and used applications and obviously the accounts/passwords.
stackabrebre 5y ago
Configure a peripheral to be recognized as both keyboard and storage device e.g. a PiZero with https://github.com/darrylburke/RaspberryPiZero_HID_MultiTool https://github.com/darrylburke/RaspberryPiZero_HID_MultiTool and have it copy data to its SD by injecting a bunch of keystrokes, low effort and cheap (and fun?) Just tell your digibete friends to plug it and store the SD, they can pass it on to each other
kradeelav 5y ago
> buy not-cloud-connected(1) WesternDigital backup drive > hook up to computer via spare USB port on the back > set up automatic backups > done! It's my go-to for "not techie" parents and grandparents and never failed me with less than 10 minutes of active work. Pretty easy to migrate into new computers too. (1)I distrust anything connected to the cloud more than I do stuff I can own.
- ryankrage77 5y ago
  > I distrust anything connected to the cloud Good idea. The WD My Cloud service was hacked a while back, and some driver owners lost all their data. https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22549677/wd-my-book-live-data-deletion-unplug-lan-cable-threat-actor https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22549677/wd-my-book-live-...
KronisLV 5y ago
OPTION #1 - SIMPLE FILE COPIES ON MULTIPLE DISKS The absolute simplest option that i can think of: have a few large HDDs or SSDs that you connect to your device with an USB enclosure and copy over all of your data. It's also reasonably simple to automate that process with something like cron and rsync. If it's not possible to automate that process, or it's too cumbersome, then just do it manually and keep a log somewhere. Example: 2021.10.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD1 2021.09.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD3 2021.08.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD2 2021.07.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD1 2021.06.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD3 2021.05.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD2 ... Pros: + doesn't take any advanced knowledge of software, software packages, or even require a specific OS + the backups are just files that you can view and copy just like you would with any other disk + if the devices have cloud storage clients installed, you can transparently also back up those Cons: - somewhat tedious, especially if you don't set up a calendar reminder on your phone or something - if you want redundant backups (say, on HDD1, HDD2, HDD3), then you'll need to copy the files multiple times - all of your backups are probably in one place with this approach OPTION #2 - CONSUMER BACKUP SOFTWARE, MULTIPLE DISKS If a slightly more complex solution is okay, then you might use some of the software that's out there, built with the purpose of automating backups. Some of the solutions are paid, others are free, but the general idea is the same - you set up some directories which you'd like to backup, you set a schedule and perhaps some rules on what to back up and how and let the software run whenever. Example: https://bvckup2.com/ https://bvckup.com/ Pros: + allows automating backups, so human error is less of a factor + minimizes complexity as the amount of data that you need (or the count of locations) to backup increases Cons: - depends on the platform, each OS will have their own pieces of software for something like this - still not networked, unless you use a NAS or something similar (which you might consider at this point) OPTION #3 - A SERVER FOR BACKUPS, OVER THE NETWORK Now, this is a bit more complicated, but since any regular computer can become a server and since HDDs are pretty cheap anyways, spending a few days setting up a backup solution can sometimes be worth it, if the people can spend some time following guides or reading the documentation. Essentially, you'd set up your own server, with an OS of your choice (personally i'd suggest Debian or Ubuntu LTS) and would install some software package, that could connect to the devices that you'd like to back up and would pull data from them at a set schedule. Alterting options are also available should anything go wrong. Example: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/ Pros: + this can be a proper networked solution, which allows you to host it anywhere, away from your physical location + there can be some pretty useful deduplication functionality built into the software, as well as support for various connection methods + this can also give life to your old electronics, as opposed to contributing to e-waste Cons: - if the backups work with a "pull" model, you'll need to configure access to all of the devices that you'd like to connect to, which can be troublesome - furthermore, depending on how all of this is set up, security becomes more of a concern, as it is with any networked solution - at this point, you're basically maintaining a server of your own ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS There are more complicated setups out there, such as file systems with snapshotting, RAID to avoid individual disk failures, storage pools etc., which may or may not be worth it, based on the complexity vs the benefit that they provide. NAS solutions and cloud solutions for storage can also be explored, as long as security isn't forgotten about - for most people, both of those can be good options and can be combined with any of the alternatives. Integrity is surprisingly hard to get right and as long as you have multiple backups of the same files over time, it's not always worth it to worry about it too much. Ideally, check the files that matter to you in the backups manually, like whether your master's thesis was backed up correctly. Version control systems are also surprisingly nice for smaller files, like the aforementioned thesis - with something like GitLab and the aforementioned server backups, that introduces more redundancy and versioning in the mix, with tools that most developers will be familiar with. Restoring backups is important, yet not often considered much. If you use something like BackupPC, you absolutely need to test whether you can properly download or restore the files that you've backed up into it, otherwise it's useless. Lastly, you should remember the 3-2-1 rule of backups: > The 3-2-1 rule can aid in the backup process. It states that there should be at least 3 copies of the data, stored on 2 different types of storage media, and one copy should be kept offsite, in a remote location. (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup#3-2-1_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup#3-2-1_rule) In my experience, that's why file/archive based solutions are perhaps the best option, because they're easy to carry over to other storage mediums. Not only that, but the above options actually combine with one another rather nicely. Right now, i use manual backups of the data that matters to me on my phone (connect through USB, transfer files monthly), use the backup software to automatically propagate my files across multiple drives, then use BackupPC to pull my files to a backup server, which also has multiple mirrored drives that incrementally synchronize with rsync and cron. Then i also use a few Nextcloud instances which copy my local files to my own VPSes, which coincidentally are also pulled down by BackupPC. And then i also copy some of my keychains and other important files on local storage mediums - SD cards or memory sticks, as well as encrypted containers on almost every device that i use (VeraCrypt). In my eyes, the simplest solutions that don't require specialized hardware are perhaps the best ones. Thus, my risk analysis looks like this: - if one of my HDDs/SSDs fail, i can pull a backup off of the spare drive - if one of my devices fail (power surge etc.), i can pull a backup off of my backup server - if my backup server fails (power surge etc.), i still have the most important data in Nextcloud, on my cloud VPSes - if my cloud VPSes fail (banned etc.), i still have the data in various SD cards strewn around the place (as long as i can get VeraCrypt or KeePass working somehwere) - if my cloud VPSes fail (banned etc.) and all of my local devices fail and my SD cards fail (house burns down etc.), i still have the cached Nextcloud data and encrypted stuff on my smartphone, which i keep with myself And it's also possible to plan further contingencies, if needed: - if all of the above were to fail, then it'd also be possible to just give a third party (trusted person) backed up drives every now and then - if no such party is available, then it's possible to just upload encrypted backups to all of the cloud providers that you know of, for redundancy - if all of the cloud providers have also failed, then you probably have bigger problems and backups are no longer relevant
pengo 5y ago
We have a high-end NAS and all devices (laptops, desktops, tablets and phones) back up to that. That NAS then backs up to the cloud overnight, every night. We're also getting a second NAS which will do an offsite mirror of the first in a remote location. Setting this up is simple: the NAS manufacturer has an app for every OS. Install it on each device and follow the instructions. It's similarly simple to set up the cloud backup; just open the app on the NAS and enter the cloud storage credentials (it works with almost every provider). Once this is set up there's no effort required.
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  I shelled out >600€ for a Qnap and good disks, but I never managed to make it "just work", not even for simple backup of data from two phones. Maybe its a me-issue or a Qnap-issue but this really turned me off NAS.
Dreadztattoos 5y ago
Im a professional tattoo artist and and I've been collecting pictures data in particular pretty extensively for over a decade... I have roughly 2tb cloud storage on each cloud service.. One drive and Google drive. Photos and videos and various graphic file extensions like.. Psd .Tiff .Actn etc... I've grown a bit professionally and so now instead of just dumping new art and photos of my tattoos and marketing graphics etc... I'm in desperate need of spring cleaning I plan to metatag all photos running them all through lighten cataloging them all and maintain upkeep moving forward from there. As you know both these services are as useless as tits on a bull, but it is what it is I have to work with one or the other or both. Folder to Folder transfers need to be fast or this is going to be impossible ... Should I do all moving around if files folders etc. On an external HD? then re upload? And please for the love of God someone tell me that there is a tool service or software or poor unfortunate slave out there that can be used to automatically Catagorize photos... One that optically, can analyze each one and determine if it's a photo of a tattoo on a person's body, differentiating from photos of graphics, artwork, objects... Etc. Please help!! my poor habbits have ruined my digital existence.... MUST LIVE AGAIN!!
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  The past is the past. Start with good habits now and if you ever get around to it you can retroactively sort the past ones.
ryankrage77 5y ago
Time Machine is among the easiest backup solutions I've ever used. Just enable it, point at a USB hard drive or compatible network share, and it just works. Restoring files or rolling back the state of the whole machine takes just a few clicks. Of course, if the backup media is in the same location as your mac, it's susceptible to theft, fire, etc. And you need to be using macOS. If you just want to keep files and don't care about your OS, most cloud providers desktop clients work fine - Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, etc. And they have the added bonus of keeping things in sync across multiple machines, which allows for working across multiple devices, and also each instance is another backup of your files (provided it's set to actually download synced files immediatley, rather than on-demand, as OneDrive defaults to). I have more experience with OneDrive than other providers, since I use it for work. Pros: - Two-stage recycle bin. If you delete a file, it goes in a recycle bin. If you delete it from there as well, it goes into another recyle bin & can still be restored. - Can sync your Documents, Pictures and Desktop folders in addition to the OneDrive folder, at least on Windows. Cons: - Doesn't handle large numbers of files well. Syncing 1000+ 500KB files can take the better part of a day. - Only downloads to the local machine on demand by default (but you can change this). As a set-and-forget solution with a little more setup effort, a commercial NAS (think Synology, QNAP, etc) & their software for backing up your PC should work well. Many NAS's have a feature to back up your NAS (or a portion of your data) to a friends NAS - and they can back up their data on yours. Buy one for youself and your parents/grandparents, and then you all have offsite backups for the family photos. LTT has a good demo of this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpxBmxj5mP0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpxBmxj5mP0 I think there is a minimum level of computer proficiency needed to utilise a backup solution. So many people don't understand the concept of files and folders, or a filesystem, and I imagine the managing backups would be a stretch for them, unless they spent some time learning about these concepts. If a university student can't understand that their work is saved in a folder and not in Word, they're going to have a hell of a time trying to use OneDrive.
t0bia_s 5y ago
Bvckup2
aristofun 5y ago
No matter what advice you ever see (even good ones) — the weakest security point of failure is always a human being. As a simple advice for protecting files from hard drive breakdown: 1. buy mac and use built-in timemachine backup (can be encrypted). Works like a charm, nothing to think about, nothing to worry (except keeping your backup drive in safe place). 2. sync important files to cloud (dropbox, googledrive whatever). But be aware that this way you create additional door to steal your data.

123 points by bloqs 5y ago

If someone is a less able, cognitively impaired, or perhaps very young - It would be good to see what advice HN would give them for protecting their data from ransomware, theft, or disaster.

sneak 5y ago

Backblaze is ideal for this use case.

Dumblydorr 5y ago

If you don't care about privacy and allowing some company holding it, just use free services like Google Photos or Dropbox, any cloud storage would be fine.

theandrewbailey 5y ago
That might work until the ML-based content scanners find something[0] they don't like and close all the accounts. [0] those things are undocumented, and the scanners have high rates of false positives
- codazoda 5y ago
  I get your point, but this still works because your files are safely on your own machine. Just switch the solution when this happens.

jan_Inkepa 5y ago

It depends so much on the devices. The easiest option is going to be the one that's built into the device/OS/etc. That's not maybe a very useful answer, but there you have it.

howolduis 5y ago

Rclone. https://rclone.org/commands/rclone_sync/ https://rclone.org/commands/rclone_sync/ Configure cron jobs to run automatically so they dont have to do anything on their end. Even if you're on a mobile device, you can install a terminal emulator and run rclone there.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
michaelgrafl 5y ago
Cool idea, but I don't think it's quite simple enough for OP.
- howolduis 5y ago
  I thought OP was setting up a backup for someone else
ramses0 5y ago
FYI `rclone` is good for "dumb content" in that it doesn't keep execute bits on shell-scripts, etc.

endisneigh 5y ago

Setup OneDrive or equivalent. Treat it as your file system - do not, ever save anything in any folder that's not a child of the OneDrive folder. Done. If you're somewhat capable you could even set it up so the entirety of your OneDrive or equivalent is copied to another provider.

gumby 5y ago

For those advocating auto-syncing cloud systems like Dropbox, OneDrive or iCloud: what kind of files are not safe? I remember that DB famously had to make special provision for Outlook files — is that kind of thing still the case?

asciimov 5y ago

iCloud or OneDrive. In either case it has to be automated.

988747 5y ago

I will go on a limb and say: buy them an iPhone and a Macbook and teach them how to use iCloud for backups. For cognitively imparied people you cannot do much better than that.

zz865 5y ago

My advice now to family is not to rely on anything - assume you'll lose everything and dont worry about it. Concentrate on a few things that actually matter - like photos. Buy an external drive and copy all the photos to the drive. Buy a new drive every year or two and put the old one in someone else's house for safe storage.

duxup 5y ago
I'd tack on something like backblaze as well.
- causi 5y ago
  Yeah, Backblaze is pretty great. My desktop is full of hard drives with all my family's files, and everything gets backed up continuously.
  - veidr 5y ago
    I think Backblaze is only great if you are looking for something cheap. It is definitely that, and I am reluctant to complain about it when it backs up my 25TB home server Mac Mini for $60 per year. (Oh, it's $84 now. But whatever, still very cheap.) But I also set up Backblaze for most of my family members, and when my dad's iMac SSD died, even though I physically visited, and even though I had 48 hours there, there was no way to recover the (meager 1TB) contents. I had to use the pretty-trash web UI and could only select something like 25GB at a time, from a super-slow and janky web UI, and then download those files in like dinosaur-time. It did save the day; I could get the most important files (there were like, specific ones on the desktop that my dad was mostly really concerned about). But in my only experience of using Backblaze in actual crisis, it disappointed. I think (though I have never verified) that their option to FedEx a hard disk would have worked, if I had had more time, and that's cool. But I was only there for a couple days, and was trying to set him up with a new Mac Mini to replace the failed iMac. So in the end, we said fuck it, and my dad lost a bunch of his shit. OTOH, 5 or 8 years ago (?), my laptop corrupted my iPhoto library. (Yeah, back in iPhoto time.) I happened to be on a Japanese bullet train from Osaka to Tokyo at the time (editing a Printed Book composition for a gift, and that seemed to be what irrevocably corrupted the iPhoto library). I restored the backed-up iPhoto library (maybe 250GB back then, a tenth of what it is today) to my home Mac and it was restored by the time I got home from the 2.5 hour train ride. But it also cost me something like $180, because I had Arq configured to use AWS Glacier storage, which (at least back then — does it even still exist?) was cheap to put data into and very expensive to get data out of quickly. (IIRC Arq even paused automatically, to avoid this, but I pressed the Continue button.) something something pros and cons

cybernautique 5y ago

Syncthing helps prevent against theft and disaster. Syncthing with an offline backup policy helps mitigate against ransomware, but unfortunately any policy that moves bits from one place to another allows an attack vector for malicious bits to infect the target device to which bits are being transferred.

playpause 5y ago
I personally found Syncthing too complex, unpolished and confusing to be worth it, and I am an experienced software engineer in my 30s. And you’re recommending it for people who are “cognitively impaired, less able” etc? Absolutely silly.
- cybernautique 5y ago
  I'm not sure what your experience was or how long ago, but syncthing is one of very few programs I've ever had 'just work,' like absolute magic. sudo pacman -S syncthing, syncthing was all it took to stand it up, followed by extremely minimal in-app setup that was no more complex than working a modern music player. It keeps everything synced across my PCs and my mobile without any intervention on my part.
  - playpause 5y ago
    Again, given “cognitive difficulties” etc, you lost me at “sudo” :)
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Are you serious? Syncthing's setup comprises of quite literally two steps: - getting both devices on the same network - scan the QR code on one device with another After that, I've also found that it "just works" on the level of Dropbox or Google Drive. Honestly, I've had more problems trying to get iCloud or OneDrive to work as WebDAV.
  - canada_dry 5y ago

peter-m80 5y ago

In that case I'd recommend to use a paid service like Dropbox (or Google Drive, or any alternative). Store your files in the dropbox folder and they will be safe (plus sync across devices and file history).

maccard 5y ago
Dropbox and Google drive will happily delete your files if you copy over them by accident. They're not really a backup service.
- codazoda 5y ago
  Dropbox allows you to restore previous files, for a time, using their web interface.
- rPlayer6554 5y ago
  Right now I just have Dropbox, but soon I plan to get a NAS and just have it sync to Dropbox. That way I get the convience of Dropbox while also still having a backup if Dropbox fails.
  - justusthane 5y ago
    That's still not a backup though. If you delete or corrupt a file from your NAS, that change will be synced to Dropbox. Backup and sync are two different things.
    - aborsy 5y ago
      But Dropbox has file version history and folder rewind.

rspoerri 5y ago

There are 2 big problems: - Data is destroyed - Data is abused (somebody uses it against you in some way) Disaster destroys, theft & ransomware destroys and/or abuses your data Security against "abusing your data" is afaik: encrypting your data, using different passwords, never trust a link in an email (allways use the links you commonly use). BUT: this is difficult and unlikely done even by a average user. Security against losing data is: backup or sync : backup is done best to my knowledge in apple devices. it also features sync. othervise i'd recommend dropbox, it can also recover some of the data you accidentially delete. printing things is also still a good backup of important data

monkey_monkey 5y ago

Backblaze + the Forever Version History feature essentially gives immutable backups of every version of a file, which is a hard counter to ransomware.

bradfa 5y ago
This is what I do for our family computer. All our photos and videos are on the family computer, it continuously backs up to backblaze with forever history and we push all our photos and videos to Google Photos, too. We print the photos we really like and put them in albums. If our house burns down and we lose the albums and computer, we still have Google Photos and backblaze. If either Google or backblaze end their relationship with us, we still have our local copies and albums (and the other service). We do pay for Google storage and for backblaze, but I think it comes out to around $12/month.

rxdazn 5y ago

backblaze will silently sync up files, and it also backs up any external devices that you plug into your computer

orr721 5y ago
And then after 4 years of backing up (and paying) you find out that BackBlaze silently changed their password requirements and you can no longer log in. Happened to me, lost 2 TB of backed family photos. Their response: "you remember your password wrong". Fortunately I had backups on secondary external drives as well.
- newusertoday 5y ago
  you forgot your password or your password was correct but it stopped working because they changed the requirement?
  - orr721 5y ago
    My password was correct but included accented characters. They changed the acceptable characters silently in their clients sometime later. After my backing machine finally crashed I was not able to log in again. Unfortunately the support guys were not able to do anything about it.

ubermonkey 5y ago

You don't have to be smart do to this. You just have to find some tools and services that are "fire and forget." This is what I do: 1. All my working files are in my Dropbox account (or my corporate Dropbox account). I did this initially to support working off two machines interchangeably, but the fact of the matter is that this creates an easy versioned backup of your "live" files. Nowadays, my Dropbox is fully mirrored on TWO backup computers here in my office (ie, a spare machine and an old machine). Setup Effort: Minimal. Ongoing Effort: Almost zero. 2. Because I use a Mac, I have Time Machine. It's glorious and can save your butt. It's the ONLY of these mechanisms I've ever had to use at scale (after a break-in and a stolen laptop). It worked flawlessly. Use it if you can. Every year or so, I get a new TM drive and archive the old one. Setup Effort: VERY Minimal. Ongoing Effort: Zero. 3. I also use Backblaze for offsite backup security. I happen to live on the gulf coast, so major storms are a concern, but there's probably some house-eating danger wherever YOU live. Setup Effort: Moderate. Ongoing Effort: Minimal. 4. Finally -- and this is the only part that needs actual action -- periodically I take a full image backup of my main machine's drive and archive it. Setup Effort: Moderate. Ongoing Effort: Moderate. I keep my newest image and my last TM drive in someone else's house, too, but that MAY be paranoia.

cloogshicer 5y ago
How do you do Time Machine backups without ongoing effort? Do you backup to a network drive or something like that?
- extra88 5y ago
  What effort? It runs automatically every hour. They include that they buy a new drive on which backups are written and archive the old one. Presumably they buy drives that are big enough to have a full backup and a reasonable about of space for the diffs (a drive 50% larger than the one being backed up is typically sufficient). Since Time Machine is in addition to other backup methods, they don't need to make an effort to keep a Time Machine drive offsite.
  - cloogshicer 5y ago

woofcat 5y ago

https://www.carbonite.com/ https://www.carbonite.com/ It's a paid solution but simple enough for my mother.

Noumenon72 5y ago
This is how I do it and my work does too, with Druva. You don't have to think about a single thing except telling it if you store files in weird places. Could not be simpler.

jdavis703 5y ago

Preferably they won’t be using devices vulnerable to ransomware. So have them run a tablet with iPadOS or Android. But make sure it’s from a manufacturer that quickly provides security patches (Apple, Google Pixel, etc). Then if you can lock the device down to child safety mode and combine it with corporate security settings. Then enable iCloud backup (or whatever the Android equivalent is.)

kylehotchkiss 5y ago

Encrypted Time Machine on Mac OS is a good start. By no means a perfect solution, but it's free if you have an external drive (even an older one). If the drive is clean, the setup process will take under 5 minutes. I just run it once a month, putting an event in calendar to remind me to do the next. If money isn't an issue, BackBlaze's options are interesting. Check out Arq backup too. Once you get either Backblaze or Arq backup, you can backup your backup drive of time machine images. Not terribly efficient, sure, but again, doesn't really require too much configuration. Minimizing friction for each step and trying to automate them are the best paths to success. If this is a mobile device, iCloud for photos is a good enough options for most people. Yeah, apple's gonna scan, but so is Google Photos, or any other service that uploads images to the internet. I really wish apple would do an E2EE time machine to the cloud one day! That would really unlock backups for a lot more less technical people.

sircastor 5y ago
Supposedly part of the on-device CSAM stuff was so they could do End to end encryption on iCloud backups. I get why people were upset about it, but I worry it comes at the cost of that E2EE feature.

omarhaneef 5y ago

I should say that the advice is not just for the cognitively impaired but also regular people, and even smart, technically adept people. As an analogy, you might be the greatest surgeon in the world but you may still want to ask a nutritionist to help you make sense of the varying, contradictory studies that come in. The problem you have identified also effects the cognitively overwhelmed which is all of us.

65 5y ago

Old school: get an external SSD, drag and drop files. New school: get a Macbook and an iPhone and use iCloud. For programmers: Make an auto-backup script to an S3 bucket for very cheap storage, backing up only what you want (e.g. adding a flag to ignore node_modules when backing up your computer).

aborsy 5y ago
S3 is not cheap, it’s among the most expensive due to egress fees.
- 65 5y ago
  Good point - Digital Ocean Spaces is a cheaper alternative while still using S3.

more_corn 5y ago

I steer people who don't know technology to Apple and mac. Enabling and paying for iCloud backup is probably the easiest. We're basically to the point where you can throw your phone off the bridge, walk into the Apple Store, log into a new phone and be back where you started. For a laptop I like the ease of the Time Capsule and time machine.

willidiots 5y ago
More broadly I think this speaks to the power of defaults. I recently had a family member lose everything (house fire) including all of his iDevices. He thought he'd lost the photos on them - he didn't even know he had iCloud backups - but as soon as we got a new device on his account, there they were.

comeonseriously 5y ago

To the people recommending iCloud. I don't think that iCloud should be considered a backup. You can far too easily delete stuff from your phone that also gets deleted from iCloud when you do. For people not prepared for this, they will have just lost something important.

CharlesW 5y ago
FWIW, iCloud retains deleted photos and files for 30 days. https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/23/recover-lost-icloud-documents-files/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/23/recover-lost-icloud-documents...

bodge5000 5y ago

I just go off backblaze and gut feeling. Basically I have backblaze backup my data daily, if theres anything I really want to make sure is safe, I back that up elsewhere, and if its something I REALLY want to make sure is safe, I'll also put it on a local disk. If I ever got to the point where I REALLY REALLY want to make sure its safe, I'd probably try to keep a local version in someone elses house, but it hasn't come to that yet. I know many here will say thats being negligent or whatever, I don't really care too much, I'd rather just get on with my life than jump through a load of hoops for data that I'm not too fussed about losing.

runnerup 5y ago

The free version of Veamm has always worked amazingly well for me through all of its name changes.

joshuajill 5y ago

Any more ideas for Android? I find it more and more complicated to back up my personal data from Android without having to upload everything to Google.

spansoa 5y ago

If your most important of important files don't exceed 2GB then a Dropbox free account is a no-brainer. If you have important files that are roughly ~100GB, Google Drive is only EUR 20 per year to upgrade from their 15Gb free tier to their 100GB offering. Again, a no-brainer. If you're concerned about the privacy of your files on cloud services, then use Cryptomator[0]. Cryptomator is for more advanced users and you need to read the DOCs before using it. Personally though, I found the interface intuitive and I don't consider myself that smart (depending on your definition of that term). [0] https://cryptomator.org/ https://cryptomator.org/

paulpauper 5y ago
that is fine if you dont mind dropbox deleting for innactivity

gwbas1c 5y ago

With web applications, this question is significantly harder to answer. Assuming they're using files on a desktop computer, find a magic backup or sync product. They all have pros and cons. I used to develop Syncplicity. It could backup "My Documents" and "Desktop" automatically, but you still had to manually add folders outside of those defaults. It was useful for a "magic backup" of things that could upload and download easily; but it wasn't going to just snapshot an entire computer. If you want to snapshot an entire computer, a lot of posts in the thread recommend Time Machine for Mac. Just understand the tradeoffs: Do you want to snapshot the entire computer, but you don't care about "cloud" features? Do you want "cloud" features like sharing, backup even when you're not home, but you don't care about restoring a computer to an exact point in time?

handrous 5y ago

What do folks use to ensure integrity? I messed around with CRC32 in the filename for a while, but that's a pain to keep up with. Lots of fiddly custom scripts involved. It's dead-simple if everything is on ZFS all the time, of course, but if you want to ensure that files haven't been damaged after 20 copies across as many drives and "cloud" services, ideally without having to drag two or more other copies out of wherever they're stored, what's the solution? Some formats (Flac, I think) embed a hash in the metadata, but most don't. Hell, I've considered putting everything in IPFS just so I get consistency hashing across all filesystems "for free". More generally, I guess the problem is that there's a lot of pain and duplicated effort all over the place due to there still not being a really good, well-supported, cross-FS and cross-OS file metadata scheme.

zoomablemind 5y ago

You need to define "data" in this use-case. General idea should be to treat the computer as a dispensable unit, kind of local cache of primary data which is remote. It is backwards, but this entrusts the "data" into more able and knowledgeable care. As an example, look no further as mobile/smartphone etc. platforms. The locally acquired data is automatically transferred to some online cloud. All needed for that is a steady and fast internet and suffucient quotas. Should the disaster hit, at least the bulk of "data" would be duplicated in the cloud(s). Assuming the cloud providers are mainstream, chances are the data could be retrievable from the new/repaired computer. All comes down to the definition and the value of the "data". Also, makes sense to have a practical way to keep an inventory of the installed and used applications and obviously the accounts/passwords.

stackabrebre 5y ago

Configure a peripheral to be recognized as both keyboard and storage device e.g. a PiZero with https://github.com/darrylburke/RaspberryPiZero_HID_MultiTool https://github.com/darrylburke/RaspberryPiZero_HID_MultiTool and have it copy data to its SD by injecting a bunch of keystrokes, low effort and cheap (and fun?) Just tell your digibete friends to plug it and store the SD, they can pass it on to each other

kradeelav 5y ago

> buy not-cloud-connected(1) WesternDigital backup drive > hook up to computer via spare USB port on the back > set up automatic backups > done! It's my go-to for "not techie" parents and grandparents and never failed me with less than 10 minutes of active work. Pretty easy to migrate into new computers too. (1)I distrust anything connected to the cloud more than I do stuff I can own.

ryankrage77 5y ago
> I distrust anything connected to the cloud Good idea. The WD My Cloud service was hacked a while back, and some driver owners lost all their data. https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22549677/wd-my-book-live-data-deletion-unplug-lan-cable-threat-actor https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22549677/wd-my-book-live-...

KronisLV 5y ago

OPTION #1 - SIMPLE FILE COPIES ON MULTIPLE DISKS The absolute simplest option that i can think of: have a few large HDDs or SSDs that you connect to your device with an USB enclosure and copy over all of your data. It's also reasonably simple to automate that process with something like cron and rsync. If it's not possible to automate that process, or it's too cumbersome, then just do it manually and keep a log somewhere. Example: 2021.10.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD1 2021.09.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD3 2021.08.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD2 2021.07.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD1 2021.06.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD3 2021.05.01 - copied over /home and /data to HDD2 ... Pros: + doesn't take any advanced knowledge of software, software packages, or even require a specific OS + the backups are just files that you can view and copy just like you would with any other disk + if the devices have cloud storage clients installed, you can transparently also back up those Cons: - somewhat tedious, especially if you don't set up a calendar reminder on your phone or something - if you want redundant backups (say, on HDD1, HDD2, HDD3), then you'll need to copy the files multiple times - all of your backups are probably in one place with this approach OPTION #2 - CONSUMER BACKUP SOFTWARE, MULTIPLE DISKS If a slightly more complex solution is okay, then you might use some of the software that's out there, built with the purpose of automating backups. Some of the solutions are paid, others are free, but the general idea is the same - you set up some directories which you'd like to backup, you set a schedule and perhaps some rules on what to back up and how and let the software run whenever. Example: https://bvckup2.com/ https://bvckup.com/ Pros: + allows automating backups, so human error is less of a factor + minimizes complexity as the amount of data that you need (or the count of locations) to backup increases Cons: - depends on the platform, each OS will have their own pieces of software for something like this - still not networked, unless you use a NAS or something similar (which you might consider at this point) OPTION #3 - A SERVER FOR BACKUPS, OVER THE NETWORK Now, this is a bit more complicated, but since any regular computer can become a server and since HDDs are pretty cheap anyways, spending a few days setting up a backup solution can sometimes be worth it, if the people can spend some time following guides or reading the documentation. Essentially, you'd set up your own server, with an OS of your choice (personally i'd suggest Debian or Ubuntu LTS) and would install some software package, that could connect to the devices that you'd like to back up and would pull data from them at a set schedule. Alterting options are also available should anything go wrong. Example: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/ Pros: + this can be a proper networked solution, which allows you to host it anywhere, away from your physical location + there can be some pretty useful deduplication functionality built into the software, as well as support for various connection methods + this can also give life to your old electronics, as opposed to contributing to e-waste Cons: - if the backups work with a "pull" model, you'll need to configure access to all of the devices that you'd like to connect to, which can be troublesome - furthermore, depending on how all of this is set up, security becomes more of a concern, as it is with any networked solution - at this point, you're basically maintaining a server of your own ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS There are more complicated setups out there, such as file systems with snapshotting, RAID to avoid individual disk failures, storage pools etc., which may or may not be worth it, based on the complexity vs the benefit that they provide. NAS solutions and cloud solutions for storage can also be explored, as long as security isn't forgotten about - for most people, both of those can be good options and can be combined with any of the alternatives. Integrity is surprisingly hard to get right and as long as you have multiple backups of the same files over time, it's not always worth it to worry about it too much. Ideally, check the files that matter to you in the backups manually, like whether your master's thesis was backed up correctly. Version control systems are also surprisingly nice for smaller files, like the aforementioned thesis - with something like GitLab and the aforementioned server backups, that introduces more redundancy and versioning in the mix, with tools that most developers will be familiar with. Restoring backups is important, yet not often considered much. If you use something like BackupPC, you absolutely need to test whether you can properly download or restore the files that you've backed up into it, otherwise it's useless. Lastly, you should remember the 3-2-1 rule of backups: > The 3-2-1 rule can aid in the backup process. It states that there should be at least 3 copies of the data, stored on 2 different types of storage media, and one copy should be kept offsite, in a remote location. (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup#3-2-1_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup#3-2-1_rule) In my experience, that's why file/archive based solutions are perhaps the best option, because they're easy to carry over to other storage mediums. Not only that, but the above options actually combine with one another rather nicely. Right now, i use manual backups of the data that matters to me on my phone (connect through USB, transfer files monthly), use the backup software to automatically propagate my files across multiple drives, then use BackupPC to pull my files to a backup server, which also has multiple mirrored drives that incrementally synchronize with rsync and cron. Then i also use a few Nextcloud instances which copy my local files to my own VPSes, which coincidentally are also pulled down by BackupPC. And then i also copy some of my keychains and other important files on local storage mediums - SD cards or memory sticks, as well as encrypted containers on almost every device that i use (VeraCrypt). In my eyes, the simplest solutions that don't require specialized hardware are perhaps the best ones. Thus, my risk analysis looks like this: - if one of my HDDs/SSDs fail, i can pull a backup off of the spare drive - if one of my devices fail (power surge etc.), i can pull a backup off of my backup server - if my backup server fails (power surge etc.), i still have the most important data in Nextcloud, on my cloud VPSes - if my cloud VPSes fail (banned etc.), i still have the data in various SD cards strewn around the place (as long as i can get VeraCrypt or KeePass working somehwere) - if my cloud VPSes fail (banned etc.) and all of my local devices fail and my SD cards fail (house burns down etc.), i still have the cached Nextcloud data and encrypted stuff on my smartphone, which i keep with myself And it's also possible to plan further contingencies, if needed: - if all of the above were to fail, then it'd also be possible to just give a third party (trusted person) backed up drives every now and then - if no such party is available, then it's possible to just upload encrypted backups to all of the cloud providers that you know of, for redundancy - if all of the cloud providers have also failed, then you probably have bigger problems and backups are no longer relevant

pengo 5y ago

We have a high-end NAS and all devices (laptops, desktops, tablets and phones) back up to that. That NAS then backs up to the cloud overnight, every night. We're also getting a second NAS which will do an offsite mirror of the first in a remote location. Setting this up is simple: the NAS manufacturer has an app for every OS. Install it on each device and follow the instructions. It's similarly simple to set up the cloud backup; just open the app on the NAS and enter the cloud storage credentials (it works with almost every provider). Once this is set up there's no effort required.

estaseuropano 5y ago
I shelled out >600€ for a Qnap and good disks, but I never managed to make it "just work", not even for simple backup of data from two phones. Maybe its a me-issue or a Qnap-issue but this really turned me off NAS.

Dreadztattoos 5y ago

Im a professional tattoo artist and and I've been collecting pictures data in particular pretty extensively for over a decade... I have roughly 2tb cloud storage on each cloud service.. One drive and Google drive. Photos and videos and various graphic file extensions like.. Psd .Tiff .Actn etc... I've grown a bit professionally and so now instead of just dumping new art and photos of my tattoos and marketing graphics etc... I'm in desperate need of spring cleaning I plan to metatag all photos running them all through lighten cataloging them all and maintain upkeep moving forward from there. As you know both these services are as useless as tits on a bull, but it is what it is I have to work with one or the other or both. Folder to Folder transfers need to be fast or this is going to be impossible ... Should I do all moving around if files folders etc. On an external HD? then re upload? And please for the love of God someone tell me that there is a tool service or software or poor unfortunate slave out there that can be used to automatically Catagorize photos... One that optically, can analyze each one and determine if it's a photo of a tattoo on a person's body, differentiating from photos of graphics, artwork, objects... Etc. Please help!! my poor habbits have ruined my digital existence.... MUST LIVE AGAIN!!

estaseuropano 5y ago
The past is the past. Start with good habits now and if you ever get around to it you can retroactively sort the past ones.

ryankrage77 5y ago

Time Machine is among the easiest backup solutions I've ever used. Just enable it, point at a USB hard drive or compatible network share, and it just works. Restoring files or rolling back the state of the whole machine takes just a few clicks. Of course, if the backup media is in the same location as your mac, it's susceptible to theft, fire, etc. And you need to be using macOS. If you just want to keep files and don't care about your OS, most cloud providers desktop clients work fine - Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, etc. And they have the added bonus of keeping things in sync across multiple machines, which allows for working across multiple devices, and also each instance is another backup of your files (provided it's set to actually download synced files immediatley, rather than on-demand, as OneDrive defaults to). I have more experience with OneDrive than other providers, since I use it for work. Pros: - Two-stage recycle bin. If you delete a file, it goes in a recycle bin. If you delete it from there as well, it goes into another recyle bin & can still be restored. - Can sync your Documents, Pictures and Desktop folders in addition to the OneDrive folder, at least on Windows. Cons: - Doesn't handle large numbers of files well. Syncing 1000+ 500KB files can take the better part of a day. - Only downloads to the local machine on demand by default (but you can change this). As a set-and-forget solution with a little more setup effort, a commercial NAS (think Synology, QNAP, etc) & their software for backing up your PC should work well. Many NAS's have a feature to back up your NAS (or a portion of your data) to a friends NAS - and they can back up their data on yours. Buy one for youself and your parents/grandparents, and then you all have offsite backups for the family photos. LTT has a good demo of this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpxBmxj5mP0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpxBmxj5mP0 I think there is a minimum level of computer proficiency needed to utilise a backup solution. So many people don't understand the concept of files and folders, or a filesystem, and I imagine the managing backups would be a stretch for them, unless they spent some time learning about these concepts. If a university student can't understand that their work is saved in a folder and not in Word, they're going to have a hell of a time trying to use OneDrive.

t0bia_s 5y ago

Bvckup2

aristofun 5y ago

No matter what advice you ever see (even good ones) — the weakest security point of failure is always a human being. As a simple advice for protecting files from hard drive breakdown: 1. buy mac and use built-in timemachine backup (can be encrypted). Works like a charm, nothing to think about, nothing to worry (except keeping your backup drive in safe place). 2. sync important files to cloud (dropbox, googledrive whatever). But be aware that this way you create additional door to steal your data.